New Holland 650 Pivot Roller Replacement

[farmersammm]

Probably be some welding in here..........always is.

This is what we're lookin' at.

Here's the rub.................. This roller, and bearing set, supports the entire sledge roller assembly. It's the pivot for the assembly. The entire assembly probably weighs around 400#

To remove this roller involves supporting the bulk of the remaining assembly. I'm not looking forward to this. It's a game of tenths, dealing with a very heavy assembly.

While we're at it, I just trashed about $900 worth of belts. That hurts, and it involves a lot of being unsure about the way this is going.

Here's the worry................... Are the belts truly worn beyond use? These are the WRONG belts for this baler. They're "Heavy Impression" belts, not "Mini Rough Top" belts...........which probably explains why the damn thing has never worked well starting a bale. The correct belts are $215 apiece. The old belts feel very slick to the touch...........so I figure I'm on the right track

I have the "new" roller on hand, and will ordr a full set of belts.

The initial problem is supporting the sledge roller assembly when the pivot roller is removed..............................it holds everything in place. We're lookin' at some serious rigging issues to hold that mess in place when the pivot is removed. Ought to be fun

Meanwhile......................
We don't need no Stinkin' Mowers

We had to sell of about 80% of the bunch last Winter.................the ones left, are serving as lawn mowers K'kins is sick of mowing the entire yard(it's big BIG). Last year we invested in a bit of electric fencing, and now we just sit back, and watch the gurlz do their job.

[farmersammm]

Lookin' at them again, they might be rough top belts, but they're worn to nibs(shrug). Anyways..............it's a done deal at this point.

[IAMsteelworker]

Is there a way to come from the top with a strap/come along and leave everything suspended? Then maybe crib it up when the part you have out repairing isn't there?

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[RCWelds]

Is there a way to come from the top with a strap/come along and leave everything suspended? Then maybe crib it up when the part you have out repairing isn't there?

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I sure hope he can safely do this repair. I like the idea of cribbing to prevent a catastrophic fall, and perhaps a fatal or serious injury. Please be safe Sam!

[farmersammm]

I have it set up pretty much like you guys suggested. A piece of square tubing bridging the top of the baler. Good place to attach the come along if need be.

At this point, it's a fight to get all of the gears, and bearings, off And, as usual, a previous owner goobered things up. Always like this on used equipment.

[farmersammm]

Somebody's been in here before me, and did a number on the clutch. This sprocket is clutch protected. Two outer plates, with a clutch pack sandwiched between them, as well as the sprocket. If the shaft gets in a bind, the sprocket will slip inside the clutch assembly. It seems as if our hero drilled through both halves, and put a bolt in there...........completely locking up the whole assembly. It will no longer slip in a bind.

And, my predecessor managed to mangle the shaft. The spring steel bolt retainer/shim/whatever is also gone. There's supposed to be a triangular piece of steel under the heads of the 3 bolts.

Took some time to clean the shaft up. Bastard file, and 60 grit abrasive strip.

Amazingly, it came off fairly easy, but not too easy. The clutch bore hadn't been ruined.....thankfully.

Typical self centering bearing used on Ag equipment. I was surprised when the eccentric lock collar came off with a set of pinch bars Usually I get to show how to cut these off without damaging the shaft(I guess I can still do it) Never fear, I'll probably have to cut the one on the other side of the baler off(shrug)

It turns out, after studying the exploded view of the parts, and the method of removal in the manual, there's no danger of the pivot slipping off. But, I do need to lower the sledge assembly rearward in order to get reasonable access to the roller. Was planning to use a come along to lower the thing, but there's no room for the handle to swing. And, I want something a little more precise in how it lowers/raises. So, I'm figuring on ordering a lever hoist........ https://www.vevor.com/manual-chain-h...ial%20Handling Can't beat the price, and the shipping is free. Harbor Freight has the same thing, sorta. More expensive, and only a 5' lift. If you're gonna buy cheap Chinese crap, it ought to be cheap Chinese crap.

[IAMsteelworker]

Thats what I was referring to when I said come along. What we call them at work.

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[farmersammm]

Thats what I was referring to when I said come along. What we call them at work.

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Yeah, the style you use is better than the cable come alongs I've used for years. They're handy, but kinda cheezy. And they move the load in jerky increments, especially when lowering.

[farmersammm]

Select Fit Bearing?????

New Holland says it's a "select fit bearing". Over $400 from New Holland. A bit cheaper aftermarket https://www.tractorpartsasap.com/rol...21-162564.html

I can get a stinkin' W209PPB2 bearing that fits the gear for about TWENTY BUCKS!!!!

Select fit my azz!!!!! I'm sure it's an interference fit, which isn't a big deal. .0005 to .001 interference fit. If the damn gear is not conforming to a new bearing, you can either turn the bore larger, or build it, and turn it smaller. (If the center insert on the gear isn't made of Kryptonite)



If the old bearing is shot, it costs noting to press it out, and see if you can save the flangettes. If so................game on. If not.......new gear

Lesseeeee.....................I got about $600 in the used roller(which might have a good bearing in it), need 6 new belts at about $225 apiece, and other miscellaneous bearings for Only God Knows What. And another possible $230 for a flippin' gear.

[Oxford1]

And for lifting a suspended load, this one would be better yet.

http://https://www.vevor.com/manual-...p_010567837405

[IAMsteelworker]

And for lifting a suspended load, this one would be better yet.

http://https://www.vevor.com/manual-...p_010567837405

You'd hate to see what all we do with ours at work....I definatley don't trust them to hold a load, and always watch hand and body placement when using them.

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[whtbaron]

And for lifting a suspended load, this one would be better yet.

http://https://www.vevor.com/manual-...p_010567837405

Link is coming up dead here... I assume you guys are talking about a lever type chain hoist?

[whtbaron]

Select Fit Bearing?????

New Holland says it's a "select fit bearing". Over $400 from New Holland. A bit cheaper aftermarket https://www.tractorpartsasap.com/rol...21-162564.html

I can get a stinkin' W209PPB2 bearing that fits the gear for about TWENTY BUCKS!!!!

Select fit my azz!!!!! I'm sure it's an interference fit, which isn't a big deal. .0005 to .001 interference fit. If the damn gear is not conforming to a new bearing, you can either turn the bore larger, or build it, and turn it smaller. (If the center insert on the gear isn't made of Kryptonite)



If the old bearing is shot, it costs noting to press it out, and see if you can save the flangettes. If so................game on. If not.......new gear

Lesseeeee.....................I got about $600 in the used roller(which might have a good bearing in it), need 6 new belts at about $225 apiece, and other miscellaneous bearings for Only God Knows What. And another possible $230 for a flippin' gear.

Ran into that on some idlers on the stone picker too. They wanted to sell me new gears for over $300. A good parts guy at the bearing shop found me new press fits for $7 each. I bought a $100 ratchet from him that day just for saving me money.

[Sberry]

Only thing could be more fun than rebuilding that is dragging the tools out in the dirt and doing it.

[Sberry]

I rarely go to the dealer, I stock some. Dont replace every piece we use but if its gonna be a problem I get it. Just bought 2 belts for tractors I want to use over the weekends. (and not on store shelf) They need replacement and they will,,, but if I got to fix one till then it will be with new instead of some saved junk.
I am not over the hump on scale like some of these corn guys, some good to big outfits have come along as of late. They use less men and bigger better equipment, better operators etc. I have lots of pieces, some good, some I will never wear out some a bit more and good share of the mechanical is really cars and trucks. I was down a couple hrs the other day,,, no real big deal, had to fix a tractor I havnt put 50$ in over 10 years other than an oil change. Back working, has limited use it works well for, not parked broke and not usable.
On our scale something 75% worn out can be just fine. Early on we rebuilt stuff that had a long future ahead of it, still will but once we have it in service the repairs are rather minor, usually have couple ways to do something and we have pit stop for repairs.
I use the auto parts for a good share, all the belts, some bearings, some oil, filters (some we like better than oem), even hytrans by the 5 gal bucket.
I have universaled a lot of hardware, some starters, alts, hose clamps (anything not 5/16 head in common clamps is tossed), some bolts. I do this every day and dont think of the net till I sit here, we cut or weld some piece the other day was really neat, some deal giving us an absolute fit.

[farmersammm]

Halfway there The bearing on this side is completely shot, but the new used roller appears to have a good bearing(whew!)

The come along/hoist left New Jersey(NEW JEZZZZY!!??) this morning.



The roller is about 70lbs when in one piece,, and the access is miserable. I'm thinking the hoist is gonna be a must-have to get it put back together.

Fight with the other half later this evening when it cools off.

[12V71]

Those things are the cats meow, I have a bunch from 500# to 6 tons. The little 5's get the most use hanging trailer axles and stuff like that. The 6 ton ones don't see much use anymore, used to use them mostly horizontally and they can drive you nuts if you don't have 3 guys to help untangle them. Once a week I would stretch them out and get the twist out of the chains between a couple of trucks and paint a line down the "ridge" of the chain links so the boys could see if it was twisted. nothing worse than having a boiler or something 3 inches from the landing zone and the chain binds up. Grrr.

[Lis2323]

Once a week I would stretch them out and get the twist out of the chains between a couple of trucks and paint a line down the "ridge" of the chain links so the boys could see if it was twisted. nothing worse than having a boiler or something 3 inches from the landing zone and the chain binds up. Grrr.

ooh. good idea!


i had a Coffing.

that a porta power and oxy-acet torch were all invaluable for field repairs.




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[12V71]

Yeah, forgot to mention the 6 tonners had traveling blocks, twisting the hook through the chain loop a few times could really mess things up.

[farmersammm]

Those things are the cats meow, I have a bunch from 500# to 6 tons. The little 5's get the most use hanging trailer axles and stuff like that. The 6 ton ones don't see much use anymore, used to use them mostly horizontally and they can drive you nuts if you don't have 3 guys to help untangle them. Once a week I would stretch them out and get the twist out of the chains between a couple of trucks and paint a line down the "ridge" of the chain links so the boys could see if it was twisted. nothing worse than having a boiler or something 3 inches from the landing zone and the chain binds up. Grrr.

Given that I've lost a lot of muscle mass with age, I'm thinking this will be the answer to a lot of problems. I just don't have the nads to do some of the stuff I could do even 3-4yrs ago.

[Lis2323]

Given that I've lost a lot of muscle mass with age, I'm thinking this will be the answer to a lot of problems. .

that and using your head


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[farmersammm]

Veeectoreeee!!

The roller has a thing that fits inside the bearing..................

This hangs on the nub on the sledge frame. The other side is a plain shaft that just slides on a bearing held in a 2 piece flange.

I truly think this would have been almost impossible to remove, except for the fact it's broken in half. The manual says to insert a bolt in the hole on the gear side, and TAP the roller to move it off the nub on the frame. Yeah right!!!!!! The shaft had to be driven through the bearing with a sledge hammer You'd either not get it to budge, or you'd mangle the threads where the bolt goes.

This roller drives, through the gear train, all of the other sledge rollers. Now that it's out, I can freely turn all of the remaining rollers, AND PRAY that all of the remaining bearings are good enough to get through the year. All of the gears are due for replacement, but I'm just wanting another season out of it before I decide to do anymore fixing. I believe I have another new idler gear for it(Old Ebay buy), but it looks like the middle sledge roller has to come out to get to it.

The baler is about 30yrs old.........so I guess I shouldn't expect it to be pristine.

[farmersammm]

I've read this a few times over, and I'm not sure I understand it.





This is the procedure for checking "The Select Fit Bearing" that comes in the gear assembly from New Holland.

Are we looking at a preloaded bearing???????????? Something tells me it's about a preload vs. the interference fit of the bearing in the bore.

If this is the case........I'm screwed. I can't buy an off the shelf preloaded bearing.

The bearing that fits the bore is a W209PPB2 that appears to be used on disc harrows. Does anyone have experience with these bearings? And are they difficult to turn when new?

The bearing in the new used roller is difficult to turn......which is to say, it doesn't turn freely like an average bearing, so I'm thinking it's in good shape. At first glance, I thought it was binding, but reading the test specs, it seems that this should be the expected condition.

[12V71]

I know nothing about round balers. But the way I read that is the amount of force required to pivot the bearing inside the gear. Seems there is a need for the outer race to pivot in the gear forming a bale? And if it's too tight that will make the popping noise? It doesn't seem to read about bearing pre load. But that's just my interpretation.

[farmersammm]

I know nothing about round balers. But the way I read that is the amount of force required to pivot the bearing inside the gear. Seems there is a need for the outer race to pivot in the gear forming a bale? And if it's too tight that will make the popping noise? It doesn't seem to read about bearing pre load. But that's just my interpretation.

That was my first impression(earlier in the thread), but now I'm not so sure You're reading it the same way, so maybe the first impression was right. We both seem to have had the same first thought.

I'm going to try to tear it down today. Another thing.........."bearing can be removed by turning it 90*". That's weird. This might be some sort of proprietary thing with a weird outer race??