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Thread: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

  1. #76
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    Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

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    I was using C25 at 20 CFH And I was pushing


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    Last edited by tacorican; 10-28-2015 at 12:54 AM.

  2. #77
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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Try slowing down. Just watch the puddle wet in to both pieces of metal and keep moving - at a pace when it's always doing that. The arc is a little stiff.
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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekV View Post
    So I've been wanting to do this for awhile and I managed to find some time the other day. I wanted to get a good idea of what I can do with this machine with my current equipment and 0.030 wire. To be honest, I surprised myself.

    Room temperature (no preheat whatsoever) 3/8" mild steel lap joint, mill scale flap disk'd off, and clamped to a random 5"x5"x9" aluminum block I have (to prevent warping and to suck out as much hear as possible in order to showcase this 211's power). Single pass, 0.030 L56, voltage maxed, WFS="85", straight argon tank @ 15 CFH, C25 tank @ 13 CFH (combined ~92/8 ArCO2 mix @ 28 CFH). No spatter, no weave, straight push right to left.

    Attachment 1254171

    Attachment 1254201

    Attachment 1254211

    Attachment 1254221

    Attachment 1254231

    Spray transfer
    Hmm... Interesting. I haven't bothered to learn more about MIG other than typical short-circuit with C25, but you have my attention now. So is spray-transfer simply the use of an argon-rich mixture, with the lesser gas component being O2 or CO2, along with altered voltage/current parameters on the machine, correct?
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  4. #79
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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Hmm... Interesting. I haven't bothered to learn more about MIG other than typical short-circuit with C25, but you have my attention now. So is spray-transfer simply the use of an argon-rich mixture, with the lesser gas component being O2 or CO2, along with altered voltage/current parameters on the machine, correct?
    Yes, pretty much. With CO2, the % needs to be less than 20%. I can't remember the O2 % window off the top of my head. Both mixes are primarily argon. I'm using CO2 because that's what's already mixed in my C25 tank, how convenient!

    Lincoln has a GMAW PDF on their site that explains spray in more complete detail, I highly recommend checking it out. To put it very simply and quickly, with spray, the wire melts before touching the workpiece, and the droplets are smaller than the diameter of the wire being used. It is spatter-free, is very efficient, has high deposition rates, and provides a deep "finger-like" penetration profile. It can also permit faster travel speeds. Additionally, smaller wires get into spray with less volts/amps than larger wire.

    Spray is made possible with high voltage, high amps (again, wire size dependent) and an argon-rich shielding gas. The gas works to provide an easy path for the current to flow through. The more argon, the "easier" (aka less required voltage) it is for the machine to get into spray. Too much argon and you don't get good wet out or tie in --- too little and you can get some serious spatter (globular transfer). CO2 requires more voltage for the arc to establish, period (for short circuit, too). Larger machines have the cajones to run proper spray mixtures (85-95% argon + 5-15% CO2) with big wire at high amperage because they have the voltage to back that up. Voltage that exceeds regular short circuit parameters.

    Max available voltage almost always drops as the current increases, and this is important. Not all 200 amp class MIGs are the same! Look at the available volts at max amperage and you'll see what I mean. I am by no means an expert, but from what I've gathered, 180-220 amp (mild steel) spray on a 90/10 ArCO2 mix wants 25-26 volts. The new Millermatic 211 has that. My testing confirms that it can in fact do it AND do it well

    And yep, still 38 lbs dry
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  5. #80
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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Well if you ever decide to sell the miller has great resale value, i paid 1100+tax for mine in 2013 and sold it last weekend for 1000. Not saying you will want to sell though .

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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by sparky24 View Post
    Well if you ever decide to sell the miller has great resale value, i paid 1100+tax for mine in 2013 and sold it last weekend for 1000. Not saying you will want to sell though .
    They sure do. I got almost all my money back for my Hobart too.

    The new 211 seems to be "a lot more welder for the money" compared to the older unit. I'll probably have this one around for awhile. A lot of power and "nice" features in a simple, lightweight unit
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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekV View Post
    They sure do. I got almost all my money back for my Hobart too.

    The new 211 seems to be "a lot more welder for the money" compared to the older unit. I'll probably have this one around for awhile. A lot of power and "nice" features in a simple, lightweight unit
    The first machine i bought was a hobart 140! i bought it at tractorsupply on sale for 359 or something like that!! i sold it for about 40 bucks more than i paid!!! B
    ecause the price bad shot up on them for some reason! lol. I thought it was funny, then i rolled that money into my 211.

  8. #83
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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekV View Post
    Yes, pretty much. With CO2, the % needs to be less than 20%. I can't remember the O2 % window off the top of my head. Both mixes are primarily argon. I'm using CO2 because that's what's already mixed in my C25 tank, how convenient!

    Lincoln has a GMAW PDF on their site that explains spray in more complete detail, I highly recommend checking it out. To put it very simply and quickly, with spray, the wire melts before touching the workpiece, and the droplets are smaller than the diameter of the wire being used. It is spatter-free, is very efficient, has high deposition rates, and provides a deep "finger-like" penetration profile. It can also permit faster travel speeds. Additionally, smaller wires get into spray with less volts/amps than larger wire.

    Spray is made possible with high voltage, high amps (again, wire size dependent) and an argon-rich shielding gas. The gas works to provide an easy path for the current to flow through. The more argon, the "easier" (aka less required voltage) it is for the machine to get into spray. Too much argon and you don't get good wet out or tie in --- too little and you can get some serious spatter (globular transfer). CO2 requires more voltage for the arc to establish, period (for short circuit, too). Larger machines have the cajones to run proper spray mixtures (85-95% argon + 5-15% CO2) with big wire at high amperage because they have the voltage to back that up. Voltage that exceeds regular short circuit parameters.

    Max available voltage almost always drops as the current increases, and this is important. Not all 200 amp class MIGs are the same! Look at the available volts at max amperage and you'll see what I mean. I am by no means an expert, but from what I've gathered, 180-220 amp (mild steel) spray on a 90/10 ArCO2 mix wants 25-26 volts. The new Millermatic 211 has that. My testing confirms that it can in fact do it AND do it well

    And yep, still 38 lbs dry
    Thanks, I think I'll be trying that, since I too have an argon tank, and one C25 tank as well. Cool stuff.
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  9. #84
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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by sparky24 View Post
    The first machine i bought was a hobart 140! i bought it at tractorsupply on sale for 359 or something like that!! i sold it for about 40 bucks more than i paid!!! B
    ecause the price bad shot up on them for some reason! lol. I thought it was funny, then i rolled that money into my 211.
    Don't you love when that happens??
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  10. #85
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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Thanks, I think I'll be trying that, since I too have an argon tank, and one C25 tank as well. Cool stuff.
    No problem! I have check valves for each flowmeter at the T. They might not be totally necessary but they certainly provide piece of mind. A good starting point is going 50/50 with the gases (i.e. 12 CFH + 12 CFH). That'll give you an 87.5/12.5 ArCO2 mix. I've found that it's best (for the MM211 at least) to get in the total 24-30 CFH range. If you want to mess with the ratio, do it on the straight argon reg/flowmeter. Just be mindful that even little changes can be the difference from 80/20 to 92/8 ArCO2. I made a chart in Excel that has the gas outputs for individual tank flow changes...I can send it to you if you want.

    I still need to try this on 0.035.
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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    No worries. I got about 8 classes of calculus under my belt. Ratios and percentages don't phase me.
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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    A little off topic but is anyone running Lincoln L56 .030 wire? What spool size of the L56 fits the 211?

    thanks

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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daskoff View Post
    A little off topic but is anyone running Lincoln L56 .030 wire? What spool size of the L56 fits the 211?

    thanks
    The old style 211 likes the L 56 .030 and takes the 12 pound spool. I bought some at ZORO at their 30% off one day sale. Hopefully they'll have another near black Friday OR the Monday following.

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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Do the 10lb spools fit on these new 211's? I assume so but looks small. Ive got the old 211. Would love to compare them.

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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by BD1 View Post
    The old style 211 likes the L 56 .030 and takes the 12 pound spool. I bought some at ZORO at their 30% off one day sale. Hopefully they'll have another near black Friday OR the Monday following.
    I'm looking to buy the new 211 so I think it is much smaller...probably the 2 lbs would fit but I have not seen 4 lbs L56 wire or even 8lbs?.

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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by scramblerj View Post
    Do the 10lb spools fit on these new 211's? I assume so but looks small. Ive got the old 211. Would love to compare them.
    Yup it's tiny, just barely big enough to fit an 8" 10-12 lbs spool.
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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daskoff View Post
    I'm looking to buy the new 211 so I think it is much smaller...probably the 2 lbs would fit but I have not seen 4 lbs L56 wire or even 8lbs?.
    MILLER STATES , '' Uses 4 inch or 8 inch (102 or 203 mm) spools . My current LINCOLN L56 .030 is 8'' diameter and 12.5 pounds.

    I bought a few at ZORO when they had 30% off. $43.93 /ea regular price so they were around $30.00 each

    http://www.zoro.com/lincoln-electric...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daskoff View Post
    A little off topic but is anyone running Lincoln L56 .030 wire? What spool size of the L56 fits the 211?

    thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by scramblerj View Post
    Do the 10lb spools fit on these new 211's? I assume so but looks small. Ive got the old 211. Would love to compare them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daskoff View Post
    I'm looking to buy the new 211 so I think it is much smaller...probably the 2 lbs would fit but I have not seen 4 lbs L56 wire or even 8lbs?.
    I take it neither of you read a single word in this thread...
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    Re: Buying a Miller 211. What else to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekV View Post
    I take it neither of you read a single word in this thread...
    Funny and true.

    The 8/3 cords mentioned earlier are great, I decided to buy 2 25' cords instead of the 50' one, cost me about $40 more but its worth that to me to not have to wrestle with the full length of the 8/3 if I don't need it on shorter runs.

    Brian
    Last edited by calstar; 11-22-2015 at 11:47 AM.

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