Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

[smithdoor]

The key word is education.
Whether you get from school or a books.
There are lot of rod burners how can lay a good bead but did not learn mush else in school or try reading a book..

Dave

Read books, look at pictures, and ultimately you go and watch how someone else does it.

[smithdoor]

The education is the important part of being a good welder.

I have interviewed a lot of welders with cert. I would ask them what rod they like using there answer was E70S-3. I ask about welding symbols most did not answer the few that did would get a paper out wallet with welding symbols.
All the had education from high school most was JR college

Dave

Personally I'd suggest the following.

1 - Associates degree in business. College will help you learn how to find the answers, and provide a basic foundation in economics, accounting and business principles. A minor in liberal arts will help you become a better person, and the history of the world.
2 - Trade school to learn the craft of welding. Get certified. It's very difficult to become certified is you are self taught. A good school will help.
3 - Continuing education as self-taught.

[California]

The education is the important part of being a good welder.

I have interviewed a lot of welders with cert. I would ask them what rod they like using there answer was E70S-3. I ask about welding symbols most did not answer the few that did would get a paper out wallet with welding symbols.
All the had education from high school most was JR college

Dave

Simplest definition of a PhD, doctorate, I've ever heard: And it also applies to many specialties: "He not only has heard every theory that applies to his specialty. He also can explain to you which of those theories are correct and which are wrong".

That kind of knowledge is miles above tradesman-level education.

[smithdoor]

A PhD is to get go paying job.
A tradesman should be educated too.
But who is going fix your plumbing issues.

Dave

Simplest definition of a PhD, doctorate, I've ever heard: And it also applies to many specialties: "He not only has heard every theory that applies to his specialty. He also can explain to you which of those theories are correct and which are wrong".

That kind of knowledge is miles above tradesman-level education.

[smithdoor]

Just think of Microsoft and Apple.
Bill G and Steve S. did not have a Degree. But both are highly educated in computers.
Basically if doing the you need to be educated in the line of work either school or book

Dave

Simplest definition of a PhD, doctorate, I've ever heard: And it also applies to many specialties: "He not only has heard every theory that applies to his specialty. He also can explain to you which of those theories are correct and which are wrong".

That kind of knowledge is miles above tradesman-level education.

[Lucaskook]

I am the man who learned everything independently.

[smithdoor]

I can just see Bill Gates going to a college to learn how to use Windows .

O he is a college drop out too.

Dave

I am the man who learned everything independently.

[Lucaskook]

The main thing is to know what to learn if you're bad at studying better in college. But if you're confident in its powers it's best to take independent courses (any field), because you'll only get the information you really need and nothing extra. When I was doing welding courses I turned to the internet several times and I liked this service the most:***spam link removed***, where I found a guide for students on how to write a dialectical essay and I was developing independently. If I needed help I used to turn to them and I had all the information I needed, that's how I ended up with a book on welding where you can learn everything from A to Z.

[Sberry]

I spose its true, you learn other stuff at college like etiquette,,, different than learning on Ironwork job.

[smithdoor]

I do agree.
Most do not read books and a classroom works the best for most.
Even most classroom do not teach any type drafting witch very helpful in laying out large jobs.
But schools are interested in just welding.

Dave

I spose its true, you learn other stuff at college like etiquette,,, different than learning on Ironwork job.

[123weld]

instead, i think they can just get one of those loans, that u dont have to pay back (free)

[smithdoor]

That is good save money 💰 on something that most people depend on a good weld like Bridges and Buildings.
No money or scholarship just a back braking loan for lifetime.

I went college by being a iron worker.
No loads to drag me down for life no scholarship.

Dave

What loans?

[smithdoor]

I 👍 agree

Dave

instead, i think they can just get one of those loans, that u dont have to pay back (free)

[smithdoor]

I hope here home is paid off and car is too or she will on feet again and back to GREEN living in Great out doors.
She made a decision and to late unless it is a credit card.

Dave

It's right, the coworker of my mother took a big loan for her child to study at a prestigious university and now she is fired from work, she just doesn't know what to do

[123weld]

im sorry to hear that. sometimes the boss has favorites, and fires the good one, to give there favorite the position - not fair. did she report it to HR ?

[metalmelter2021]

I’ve read one book on welding [Welding For Dummies] by a cerified welding instructor named Farnesworth, and purchased another book entitled [Farm and Workshop Welding] by Andrew Pearce. Although I have learned a lot from that book, and many welding Videos on Youtube, like IC Welds, Tim Welds, Welding Web, and numerous others, I still decided to sign up for a welding course at the Technical College begining Aug. 10th, and believe that there are some things one can learn best from hands on instruction. Even at 68 years old, and welding already for 10 months on my own, I think the investment in a welding course will give me a foundation on the correct way to do things, and an understanding of metals and processes, that it would take me years to get on my own. I’m serious about wanting to do things that are structurally sound, and would pass any inspector’s scrutiny. Plus, certifications are available if I want to pursue them! Money well spent in my opinion!

[clipart]

I do agree A good school would help..

[Mac's Crew]

Self history here. Trade school for tooling (Jig and Fixture is my 1st bread and butta, machinist 2nd bread and butta, tool and die, plaster pattern, injection modling, then welding) BS in Business Management. There has to be a balance of "book learning" and actual learning. What I learned in school is where to look things up, vs how to solve the problem. I will NEVER use my college in the manner it was designed because I will not only loose money, but be fired within weeks.

What I did learn I learned from watching others fail. I can do the tooling/machinist/production supervisor roll if I have too, but accounting I hire out. I am not even self employed. I have a side gig and pay an accountant (see specialized bean counter) to take care of those books. I make a profit because I can estimate costs + time + overhead (accountant is overhead). OP being self-employeed for years that helps. Dramaticly. But as others said watching others make mistakes or make the right decision adds wisdom for yourself. Welding is the easy part, marketing, sales, accounting etc. those are hard to balance.

Hope this helps

[52 Ford]

During my studies I was also engaged in self-education.

That's slang for smoking weed, right?

I'm a high school drop out. I taught myself trig and whatever else I've needed. Every structure I've framed, I did all of the engineering on. In this day and age, with the amount of access to knowledge and knowledgeable people, there's really no reason you CAN'T learn something, as long as you have the motivation.

[smithdoor]

I agree on motivation

The real part of education from drafting college was engineering my father did help in both. High school was one year of electronics. Plumbing and electrical by helping was licensed contractors friends of family.
Welding , machine work and on job iron work I learned before high school .

If dropout I would almost have same education. If dropout my draf number would have been 304 and college it was 608.

That's slang for smoking weed, right?

I'm a high school drop out. I taught myself trig and whatever else I've needed. Every structure I've framed, I did all of the engineering on. In this day and age, with the amount of access to knowledge and knowledgeable people, there's really no reason you CAN'T learn something, as long as you have the motivation.

[smithdoor]

Today or children are over stress for drive just for college 🎓 loan for jobs that did not need a degree 60 years ago. This only to make a big payday for the education system.
This why a lot children turn to drugs trying to cut there stress. Later in life they so stress they choose not have any babies

When will this end.

When at the doctor's office a RN ask about welding for her child.

So in November I choose not to fund the educational nuts 🤪

Dave

FYI I did goto college and did Iron work for college 🎓 most life was in welding and machine work for less stress.

[Sberry]

As I look back at retirement age I really am starting to regret not getting some real book learnin and real college vs hanging out with malcontent and ornery old farts on top of buildings. I am a mechanic and a pusher,,,, notice didnt say leader, there is a difference and some time in college gives a chance to learn something about people vs men and machines. I did so much wrong due to not having the real mentors and trying a lot before I was ready.

[Sberry]

I met someone while back and got around to welding, he is telling me he learn from Jim Lincoln,,,, ha, sort of but he knows all about it. I ask what rod,,, he is not sure but thinks they are brown, I ask, AC or DC buzzer and he is not sure but he is some kind of fabricator for sure. So, me and a Bud are driving by and we stop in, him and another bud are tring to weld something and my Bud says,,,, wtf, where you learn this while they are jizzing about the welder must not be right and all that. So one makes a smart about well,,, if you think you can do better. John says gimme and changes the dial from 70 to 140 for a 5/32 they trying to run. They shut up a bit after he burns a rod. One even brought me a job later and notice,,, oh, ok difference between their welding and ours.
I have met some decent 6013 self learners and sometimes really surprised. I met one the other day starts telling all he know and all the rods, about 1/2 right at best and I figure oh shat but I look at bumper he installed and a couple overheads and wouldnt have a problem paying him. I work with another guy knew just enough to ask when we got to something fussy but he made a career with 1/8 7014 and while he can run the others he grabs what he is used to. Working on equipment no one cares what it was welded with as long as it doesnt break or leak.
Going in to business is a whole different animal and some got the talent the day they start, some need to learn but the good ones have a gift. I been teaching my secretary/helper contracting and she will be better than I ever was or will be, just built for it in the same way many athletes or artists are. I have seen all types, some care some dont, some are content to be hand to mouth and some wanna get rich. I made mistakes of not getting help, want to do it all, thinking I understand when I dont etc, the list is endless.
nIf I was going to do it again would keep a keen eye out for someone looking to help someone and take advantage, they call that riding a horse to a show when the others are walking. I was smart azz no one wanted to teach. Makes it hard, end up with lots of "experience" .

[Freebirdwelds]

Well this is another one of those questions...........

Some people have the right aptitude and mechanical ability to be self taught. Some people don't, and you can't teach that.

Some people can go to a welding school and actually learn something. They can train the right minds to have a good clue but unless you can combine it with real world training/experience. From wrenching, torch skills (real torch skills), 80% out of position welding, weight lifting, Isometrics, mechanical aptitude, math skills, climbing skills. etc. But you will be ready to sit or stand all day welding cogs together as they go by.........
Hell I could go on but pffft...

So far in my experience most "welding school hires" get a big shock when they realize the amount of work it takes to fab and weld. What! you didn't know that your clothes are a consumable, yeah you'll get burned. AND PUT THAT FUUCCKKING PHONE AWAY!

College? Kind of an Oxy Moron for this business. I guess it's OK if your planning on wearing L.L. Bean all day.

And last but not least, a lot of the younger generation are a complete waste on life. They have no manual labor ability/aptitude for a lot of this kind of work. A lot of them just want to "pose" or be posers. They just want to hang out all day with stinger in hand, waiting for 2 pieces of steel to touch and "there up". Dam I wish I learned the Spanish in skool, cause some of them boys get it......

Now I'm only speaking in my 45+ year break/fix/non-union iron working/heavy industrial construction world, your mileage may vary.

[smithdoor]

I agree 👍 with your statement Some people have the right aptitude and mechanical ability to be self taught

Never have regrets Sberry you made to retirement

Dave

Well this is another one of those questions...........

Some people have the right aptitude and mechanical ability to be self taught. Some people don't, and you can't teach that.

Some people can go to a welding school and actually learn something. They can train the right minds to have a good clue but unless you can combine it with real world training/experience. From wrenching, torch skills (real torch skills), 80% out of position welding, weight lifting, Isometrics, mechanical aptitude, math skills, climbing skills. etc. But you will be ready to sit or stand all day welding cogs together as they go by.........
Hell I could go on but pffft...

So far in my experience most "welding school hires" get a big shock when they realize the amount of work it takes to fab and weld. What! you didn't know that your clothes are a consumable, yeah you'll get burned. AND PUT THAT FUUCCKKING PHONE AWAY!

College? Kind of an Oxy Moron for this business. I guess it's OK if your planning on wearing L.L. Bean all day.

And last but not least, a lot of the younger generation are a complete waste on life. They have no manual labor ability/aptitude for a lot of this kind of work. A lot of them just want to "pose" or be posers. They just want to hang out all day with stinger in hand, waiting for 2 pieces of steel to touch and "there up". Dam I wish I learned the Spanish in skool, cause some of them boys get it......

Now I'm only speaking in my 45+ year break/fix/non-union iron working/heavy industrial construction world, your mileage may vary.

As I look back at retirement age I really am starting to regret not getting some real book learnin and real college vs hanging out with malcontent and ornery old farts on top of buildings. I am a mechanic and a pusher,,,, notice didnt say leader, there is a difference and some time in college gives a chance to learn something about people vs men and machines. I did so much wrong due to not having the real mentors and trying a lot before I was ready.