Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like

    What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    I for the life of me cannot get the hang of 7018 vertical up, every other position with it is like cake. the weird thing is though i can run 3/32 rods vertical up pretty good, bead flattens nice and everything. makes me look good lol.. run at about 90 amps. now 1/8 or larger rods i dont know what im doing wrong to be honest. ive ran alot of 3/32 up for practice but still. im trying around 120 amps with 3/8 and 1/2 material. just running a bead on flat plate. it still seems like its too hot. is my material too thin? everyone says keep a tight arc. well the arc is so hot i can just keep pushing the rod in until i blow through the back.. that is why i think its too hot LMAO. i turn it down and the rod doesnt want to stay lit or looks like bubble gum. what gives?

    ive watched many videos and read up as much as i can.. any help is GREATLY appreciated!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    new york city
    Posts
    6,918
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    some pictures would help.
    i.u.o.e. # 15
    queens, ny and sunny fla

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Saunderstown, RI
    Posts
    532
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    Make sure that the steel is ground shiny clean.

    Lower to about 110 amps. If you can't keep an arc going at 110 amps, then you don't have a nice soft touch. Don't blink, and don't breathe.... The tip of the rod should "float" on the surface of the puddle.

    You want to "shimmy" the puddle up the plate. This should result in a nice vertical-up stringer bead.

    Rich

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Bulldog Heaven at the end of my chain
    Posts
    3,714
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    Practice, practice, practice, and then a little more practice. Steelsurgeon is correct in you have a few too many amperes pushing through. I had a hard time with it too and started by using thicker stuff at first tapering off to 1/8" as experience grew. These were of course things that did not matter. One thing I caught onto is to lower the amperage about 10-15% for a vertical up as opposed to flat. I lower about 10% for horizontal but that's what works for me. Angle of your rod into the puddle has a lot to do with it also; about 15 degrees for me on flat and horizontal and about 25 on vertical up.

    Again, these are what I've found to work with me w/straight polarity DC.
    Slob

    Purveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.

    Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NW ON Canada
    Posts
    3,461
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    I always use a slight side to side motion even for stringers when welding vertical up with 7018. Use a Z weave motion pausing at each side to ensure you fill in the toe of the weld. Never pause in the center, only pause on the the edges or sides. The center takes care of itself. You will have to lower your amperage slightly from your flat position welding amperage.
    Welding vertical up and overhead will separate the men from the boys quickly.
    Jason
    Lincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tig
    Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52
    Miller Bobcat 250
    Torchmate CNC table
    Thermal Arc Hefty 2
    Ironworkers Local 720

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    Pictures would help some of these guys diagnose your problem....
    Also what machine are you running on? if its an inverter, what are your Arc Force (Dig) and Hot Start settings?
    Are these new 7018 rods or old?
    Also, try running a bead in the flat position, or start with a lap joint, and then rotate it Vertical and run beads up against that "starter" bead. Sometimes that helps. the 3/32 rods have less metal and amperage. 1/8 bead on plate is a lot of metal and amperage and not a lot of place for heat to disapate, so it can be tough.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    thx guys. when i get a chance i will try to practice some more again. id give you pictures but i think id be too embarrassed.. i can only make it an inch or two before the puddle droops out all over my feet. the machine is an older miller 3 phase unit at work.. rods brand new. before i would try some scrap plate or a piece of angle iron thrown up in the vice.. and weld in that "V"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    Name:  vKIEuZ9.jpg
Views: 1352
Size:  34.6 KB

    Not my picture but i can tell you my welds look pretty similar.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    110
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    If you're just running 1/8 7018 on a plate and not in a joint, that's a lot of metal that's really adhering to nothing. To get a decent bead on a plate vertical will require a bit of a wide weave to put the metal somewhere instead of the center of the bead, which is where to puddle initially falls. Now, if you ran a 1/8 7018 in let's say a vertical fillet/t-joint or a vertical beveled v-groove, the generous amount of metal put down by a 1/8 7018 as something to "bite into", instead of piling over itself like on the bare plate you explained you're welding on. 3/32 7018 is better to weld on bare plate or very tightly fitted butt seams because it doesn't have as much metal running rampant when there's no joint to grab onto. Don't get me wrong you can still run a nice stringer vertical with 1/8 7018, it just takes practice. The first bead might look quite convex but every bead you stack next to it will look better, because like I said, your next bead will have something to " bite into", which was the first bead you put down or the one previously. I hope this helps.
    Last edited by Jase90; 11-23-2015 at 09:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    Hey Jase90..was practicing stringers on flat plate and couldn't for the life of me make it stick. Tried on a t joint and i didn't do too bad.Totally explains why I couldn't on a flat piece.Thanx.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    I will practice more when I have free time and try some real joints, I don't have as much time to practice as I would like. All I really have to play with is some scrap metal that's laying around at work.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    didnt really have the time, but made time to lay down something i could call a "weld" today. i lowered to around 110, and the machine did have a dig (never noticed) i just turned it all the way down. it went alot better to say the least!! i think the part i was having the most trouble with is i would look at the rod straight on.. so im either looking above the rod and not seeing the puddle, or looking below and cant see where im going. now if i stand off the side i can see alot better (DUH) ahaha. i will keep practicing!!Name:  e80cc818-7770-48c0-99cf-91834bbda8e0.jpg
Views: 1142
Size:  36.8 KB

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Philly
    Posts
    20,159
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    Looks like you need to hold the sides longer and cross the center faster. I tell students to learn to watch the puddle. Pause at the ends and wait for the puddle to catch up to the arc and fill. If they go too slow across the center, the center fills too much because you cross twice. If they don't pause long enough for the puddle to catch up to the arc, they get undercut.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    26
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    Quote Originally Posted by DSW View Post
    Looks like you need to hold the sides longer and cross the center faster. I tell students to learn to watch the puddle. Pause at the ends and wait for the puddle to catch up to the arc and fill. If they go too slow across the center, the center fills too much because you cross twice. If they don't pause long enough for the puddle to catch up to the arc, they get undercut.
    I agree. The sides of a weld are where the voids and trapped slag will be when you go to make more passes... Like for a weld test. Also try to keep arc length at a minimum, especially if you sense your piece is getting hot. Stick requires good 3 dimensional manipulation.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
    Invertec 350 Pro
    LN-25 (2)
    Hobart Mega-Arc 350D

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?



    That's up too fast, not holding the sides, and way too much current, 140A, on flat vert fill.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
    Powcon 300st (my favorite)
    Miller Goldstar 600ss
    Lincoln Idealarc 400/400
    Miller 12vs
    2 LN25's
    Miller Deltaweld 302
    Miller Bobcat 250 G EFI
    Miller Bobcat 225d Plus (Dropped a valve, up soon)
    Everlast 255ext (ordering soon!)

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?



    Bottom is too hot, too slow, gravity is a bitch with 1/8. Top is I'd guess around 110-105 with an ultra tight arc and fast side to side mini Zs. Like one back and forth per second. I'll overlay the rest and see how it looks

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
    Powcon 300st (my favorite)
    Miller Goldstar 600ss
    Lincoln Idealarc 400/400
    Miller 12vs
    2 LN25's
    Miller Deltaweld 302
    Miller Bobcat 250 G EFI
    Miller Bobcat 225d Plus (Dropped a valve, up soon)
    Everlast 255ext (ordering soon!)

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?



    So it looks like fidos butthole. I've always struggled with vertical up. I need way more practice and some schooling from DSW, but amperage, arc length, rod angle and travel speed are the key.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
    Powcon 300st (my favorite)
    Miller Goldstar 600ss
    Lincoln Idealarc 400/400
    Miller 12vs
    2 LN25's
    Miller Deltaweld 302
    Miller Bobcat 250 G EFI
    Miller Bobcat 225d Plus (Dropped a valve, up soon)
    Everlast 255ext (ordering soon!)

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?



    Flat pipe work is a walk in the park though.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
    Powcon 300st (my favorite)
    Miller Goldstar 600ss
    Lincoln Idealarc 400/400
    Miller 12vs
    2 LN25's
    Miller Deltaweld 302
    Miller Bobcat 250 G EFI
    Miller Bobcat 225d Plus (Dropped a valve, up soon)
    Everlast 255ext (ordering soon!)

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    im not looking to become a perfect welder, just need something better then bubble gum

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Philly
    Posts
    20,159
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    stevenopolis I missed this last time thru. Amps seem a bit low for 1/8" 7018. Typically I try to run 120-125 amps using 1/8" excalibur. On occasion I'll drop to 115 and a few times if the stars align I can run hotter. As mentioned keep a tight arc and keep your motions fast and small.

    Green circled are doesn't look bad, but looks a tad cold. I wouldn't mind seeing the side to side motions a bit tighter, but they aren't bad. More motions faster, or more amps would flatten out your bead more. Yellow circled area is not bad at all other than it's inconsistent. The extra heat helped the bead flow more, so you get the softer look to the ripples as well as making the bead flatter. If you can combine the lower bead with the consistency shown above in the green one you'll be most of the way there.


    Pipe isn't easy. I note the change in profile front and right that tells me you may not be swinging the rod around fast enough to maintain the right rod angle. The flatter pointier bead on the left says to me you might be starting to long arc it at that point because the rod angle isn't right. The stuff on the right that looks cold might be because you shortened up your arc length and then the bead was too cool. I'd need to have seen the bead run to know exactly where you started stopped or be able to see more of the piece at different angles to pick out more stuff on this. Consistency needs some work as well, but overall I've seen a lot worse from guys.

    Name:  45d555f436e3af7865125340b705d670.jpg
Views: 702
Size:  31.8 KB
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    These were done with my tank 1980s powcon. I'll do some vertical bead on plate, lap, and T with bevel gap and land, then etch for fun with the everlast. Might even fire off the goldstar 600ss for 3/16 vertical fun. Thank you for the input DSW.

    The pipe outer 4 inch weld was done out of position. 4 to 2 plate was flat in place walk around, like taking steps while welding and craning, so I'm sure my angles were goofy and arc lengths inconsistent. Pressure tested 250 psi overnight, not pretty, but I'm not a welder, just a noodler

    Thanks Again.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
    Powcon 300st (my favorite)
    Miller Goldstar 600ss
    Lincoln Idealarc 400/400
    Miller 12vs
    2 LN25's
    Miller Deltaweld 302
    Miller Bobcat 250 G EFI
    Miller Bobcat 225d Plus (Dropped a valve, up soon)
    Everlast 255ext (ordering soon!)

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    PS - what you circled in yellow was about 15 Amps cooler than the green on top....

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
    Powcon 300st (my favorite)
    Miller Goldstar 600ss
    Lincoln Idealarc 400/400
    Miller 12vs
    2 LN25's
    Miller Deltaweld 302
    Miller Bobcat 250 G EFI
    Miller Bobcat 225d Plus (Dropped a valve, up soon)
    Everlast 255ext (ordering soon!)

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Philly
    Posts
    20,159
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    If that's the case your arc length was a lot longer in the lower area. I read your post originally as you had turned down the amps as you said the bottom was "too hot". That usually indicates higher amps.


    Quote Originally Posted by stevenopolis View Post
    Bottom is too hot, too slow, gravity is a bitch with 1/8. Top is I'd guess around 110-105 with an ultra tight arc and fast side to side mini Zs.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What is the secret to 7018 vert up?

    Yeah, I just looked in the fridge and realized I didn't think correctly when I typed that. I'm on epilepsy medication that really plays hell with my memory.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
    Powcon 300st (my favorite)
    Miller Goldstar 600ss
    Lincoln Idealarc 400/400
    Miller 12vs
    2 LN25's
    Miller Deltaweld 302
    Miller Bobcat 250 G EFI
    Miller Bobcat 225d Plus (Dropped a valve, up soon)
    Everlast 255ext (ordering soon!)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Page generated in 1,642,499,630.85061 seconds with 12 queries