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Thread: New HF TIG/stick machine?

  1. #26
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldendum View Post
    60% duty cycle at 165 Amps? 98 Open Circuit Volts? 1.0 pound shipping weight? Impressive.

    Nice that they give you seven schematics in the manual to assist with troubleshooting.

    I wonder if this is manufactured by the same company that made the decent plasma cutters? I can't recall the company name.
    .
    a inverter with 98 volt open circuit voltage is not the same as a transformer with 70 volt open circuit voltage
    .
    the inverter as arc length increases voltage drops fast like in milliseconds.
    .
    with a transformer at 70 ocv thats slow i can pull a 3/8" long 6010 arc easy and every time for many seconds.
    .
    with inverter that drops open circuit voltage in a millisecond before arc gets 1/8" voltage already drops much lower. so arc starts easy but usually will not allow a long arc
    .
    2 schools of thought on that. long arc is poor practice and allows poor quality weld more easily. by making inverter start arc easy it prevents long arc on purpose by fast dropping open circuit voltage on long arc preventing poor weld metal but...... since voltage goes back up in a millisecond it make faster arc restarts possible
    .
    i guess i would prefer a adjustble open circuit voltage and arc force setting like some welders used to have. with tig it is preferable not to have high open circuit voltage or high arc force. i had a old Lincoln welder with arc force knob that i liked to use. or a knob to control how fast open circuit voltage changes
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 12-13-2015 at 01:41 PM.

  2. #27
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    i might get this as my first tig. i don't mind spending the extra for the eastwood, but what do you guys think? worth it for a noob?
    Last edited by superwelder; 12-17-2015 at 04:09 AM.

  3. #28
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    HF welding machine the $200 tig stick welder still works good for me.
    .
    spend extra money for other machines and warranty if you want. $400 machine has foot pedal amp control and high frequency arc start which is nice to have but not needed. you will spend easily a extra $100 or $200 for argon flow meter and argon cylinder and you will need a 240 volt plug minimum 30 amps
    .
    i believe HF sells welding machines to sell the consumables which is where they really make there money. welding rod is often 2x the price of what it would be if you bought a bigger box of welding rod in a welding store. i plan to use welding machine a lot first 90 days which is only warranty it has unless you pay a extra $25 or $50. usually most machines if they are going to break will fail the first 90 days. i believe HF only sells machines that will last long enough for them to make money selling the welding consumables which is where they make their money. there is less profit if welding machine stops working after 91 days
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 12-17-2015 at 10:34 AM.

  4. #29
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Seen the new model about a week ago at harbor freight, looks exactly like the blue model except for the pedal and black case. Would buy to try it if I didn't have my syncro.

  5. #30
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaRay View Post
    Seen the new model about a week ago at harbor freight, looks exactly like the blue model except for the pedal and black case. Would buy to try it if I didn't have my syncro.
    .
    it is just a yearly welding machine update or improvement. $400 machine now has included footpedal amp control and i believe it is 165 amps at 60% duty cycle
    .
    $200 tig/stick welder has more amps now was 130 amp now 145amp stick 165 amp tig at 40% duty cycle (120 amp is 60% duty cycle) the included tig torch is surprisingly a good torch. the stick electrode holder and ground are on light duty side but i was able to use without the slightest problems
    .
    the $200 tig/stick welder is so small i have had a lunch box that was bigger and heavier. i have had 3 weeks now and it works very good.
    .
    only negative thing i found was like a lot of inverter welders if stick welding with 6010 rod you need to keep arc length short. with 6011 rod i can pull a long arc if needed. the open circuit voltage is actually higher than normal for easy arc start but it also goes back to lower arc voltage very quickly easily in less than 1/2 second. i can weld with 6010 rod but only near dragging height or short arc and weaving slightly side to side continuously. many inverter welders are not able to pull long continuous arcs with 6010 rod. when tig welding i was able to pull a medium length arc with no problems. the amp rating knob is easily on high side. that is when set for 100 amps many will say it acts more like 110 amps. i was using 3/32 6010 rod at 60 to 70 amps according to amp setting knob and 1/8 at 100 to 110 amps
    .
    that is the only thing so far that makes me rate it only 4 out of 5 star rating. the high open circuit voltage drops extremely fast. arc starts very easy but it prevents a long arc with 6010 rod
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 12-21-2015 at 07:45 AM.

  6. #31
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Bought my wife the 130 amp (66787) , going for over 3 years and even made a foot pedal for it. Not a bad welder but the cables are crazy short.

  7. #32
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaRay View Post
    Bought my wife the 130 amp (66787) , going for over 3 years and even made a foot pedal for it. Not a bad welder but the cables are crazy short.
    .
    obviously most people add welding cable connectors to easily add welding cable extension cables. never seen a welding machine yet that did this as sold.
    .
    you always have to add connectors if you want longer cables. most buy a better electrode holder and ground clamp if they want one. i have easily spent over $200 for a better electrode holder, ground clamp, welding cable and cable connectors before. not unusual to spend $400 if you wanted really long length welding cables. with little inverter welder easier to use a 240 volt extension cord and bring machine close to the job. copper wire is expensive and heavy. many do not want long welding cable anymore
    .
    this years machine the amps are higher now 145 amp stick 165 amp tig . i am assuming it is a new technology improvement for 2015
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 12-21-2015 at 08:49 AM.

  8. #33
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    .
    obviously most people add welding cable connectors to easily add welding cable extension cables. never seen a welding machine yet that did this as sold.
    .
    you always have to add connectors if you want longer cables. most buy a better electrode holder and ground clamp if they want one. i have easily spent over $200 for a better electrode holder, ground clamp, welding cable and cable connectors before. not unusual to spend $400 if you wanted really long length welding cables. with little inverter welder easier to use a 240 volt extension cord and bring machine close to the job. copper wire is expensive and heavy. many do not want long welding cable anymore
    .
    this years machine the amps are higher now 145 amp stick 165 amp tig . i am assuming it is a new technology improvement for 2015
    for what the machine is I wouldn't spend any more upgrading but If given the choice I would buy the newer machine since high frequency is nice to have and makes it easier for the beginner.

  9. #34
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaRay View Post
    for what the machine is I wouldn't spend any more upgrading but If given the choice I would buy the newer machine since high frequency is nice to have and makes it easier for the beginner.
    .
    actually many find high frequency more a professional thing where people beginning often just accidentally zap themselves with it
    .
    the $200 inverter i have is i believe 95 volt open circuit voltage (higher than normal) and extremely easy to scratch start arc. i merely also pointed out that welding open circuit voltage is not able to maintain that high a voltage or pull a long 6010 arc as the voltage drops back down very quickly like probably in milliseconds
    .
    obviously many might buy the $400 welder with foot pedal and high frequency start and figure the extra $200 is worth it. for myself the wife gets upset if she feels i am wasting money on what i do not need.

  10. #35
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    .
    actually many find high frequency more a professional thing where people beginning often just accidentally zap themselves with it
    I never knew that but then again I am just a beginner

  11. #36
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Just bought the HF tig with pedal and I love it. I have a Miller 330 A/BP that I bought new about 45 years ago that has served me well so I'm very familiar with welding and fabrication. The HF machine has HF start and very stable arc. The pedal works as well as the Miller's pedal. It is a DC machine so to weld aluminum you would need helium on straight polarity or very thin aluminum on DC reverse polarity with Argon. Only time will tell how well it holds up but I have the two year replacement warranty. Appears to me to be a quality machine and quality torch, electrode holder and ground clamp. You also get a 3/32 and 1/16 tungsten plus several cups and collets. WP parts fit the torch.
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    What's the button on the pedal for ?
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Are you talking about the red cap on the end of the bolt.
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Ooo got it. It was hard to tell from the picture
    My store doesn't have one on display
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by riley mcmillan View Post
    Just bought the HF tig with pedal and I love it. I have a Miller 330 A/BP that I bought new about 45 years ago that has served me well so I'm very familiar with welding and fabrication. The HF machine has HF start and very stable arc. The pedal works as well as the Miller's pedal. It is a DC machine so to weld aluminum you would need helium on straight polarity or very thin aluminum on DC reverse polarity with Argon. Only time will tell how well it holds up but I have the two year replacement warranty. Appears to me to be a quality machine and quality torch, electrode holder and ground clamp. You also get a 3/32 and 1/16 tungsten plus several cups and collets. WP parts fit the torch.
    .
    what some Americans do not realize is how much larger amounts of steel is now made and welded in China now like China makes over 500% more steel than the USA. Welding machines coming from China reflect what is popular there
    .
    small machines in size and weight, moderate power /amps for majority of needs
    .
    even if you prefer American made welding machines i consider it important to buy and use some of the Chinese welding machines if nothing else so you can compare them to American ones. it is important to try to learn what is going on in China if nothing else so Americans can better compete in world markets by knowing what the competition is doing.

  16. #41
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    In reading HF description of the $200 TIG it said torch was optional...is torch included?
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    for myself the wife gets upset if she feels i am wasting money on what i do not need.
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  18. #43
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimboTN View Post
    In reading HF description of the $200 TIG it said torch was optional...is torch included?
    .
    yes tig torch comes with $200 machine along with collets, ceramic gas cups, long and short cap for tig torch and power block connector to plug into machine. look in box at HF store if not sure. also shows tig torch on box welder comes in
    .
    but you will need to buy a argon flowmeter and argon tank. odd but end of tig torch hose has no end and the end of HF argon flow meter has the hose barb fitting you slide on tig hose. or i just used a hose barb fitting i already had to slide on quickly to use my existing argon flowmeter.
    .
    tig torch is 100 amp air cooled one. sure you can use more amps but it will overheat if you do not let cool every so often. it matches the welding machine. i have used welding machine up to 145 amp stick and 165amp tig limit and have had no problems welding for a month now.
    .
    at 120 amps or less it is like 60% duty cycle and i never got the overheating light to light up ever so far.
    .
    only thing is it runs 6011 and 7018 rod very good. if i use 6010 rod which most inverters do not run well i can use 6010 but must be a short arc length close to dragging and a short side to side weave. if the arc goes long it will go out. machine has high open circuit viltage so restarting arc is easy but it will not maintain high open circuit voltage. it is more a very quick burst of high voltage for easy arc starts that drops back down quickly.
    .
    basically stick welding with a long arc can lead to poor weld quality as the machine will quickly have arc go out to prevent poor weld quality and the quick drop in open circuit voltage may also be a safety thing to prevent a welder getting zapped with high voltage. machine is probably designed for professional and non professional use. just saying use 6011 rod if you want a easier weld rod type to use. i am using up my 6010 rod with it but i have 6011 for tack welding if needed.
    .
    machine is on hot side that is if you want 100 amps i would set it for 95 or 90 amps. i use 3/32 6010 rod normally at 55 to 70 amps. i welded 1/8 thick tubing 1-1/4 sq and 3/16 thick 2x2 angle with it easily. i have practiced using 1/8 7018 rod with it on plate and it runs very good. but around the house for hobby use i usually just use 3/32 rod.
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 12-26-2015 at 07:42 AM.

  19. #44
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    saw it today at the store
     photo 90EB489F-B49C-4E40-B131-68D9DF19FF9E_zps2cc16kcj.jpg


     photo B01914FB-37FD-47F8-A4BF-8A72E7178728_zpswbb0swsi.jpg


     photo 0E16A5BF-6567-4921-BB39-43D2F5F75BC8_zpsaqrqd0ph.jpg
    Last edited by Gamble; 01-06-2016 at 06:29 PM.
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?




    Anybody have more info on this particular unit? I'm eyeing this one and NOT the $200 one that everybody keeps bringing up. I looking to pick up a cheap unit like this to get into the TIG side of welding, as I need to be able to do aluminum for intercooler pipes and stainless for exhaust work on my car build. Currently only have a Clarke Turbo Weld 100EN setup for gasless fluxcored MIG. Was going to pick it up today then hit the local welding supply for the Argon, but I think I'll hold off a bit as info seems scarce at the moment.


    _
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by MustangAndy View Post
    Anybody have more info on this particular unit? I'm eyeing this one and NOT the $200 one that everybody keeps bringing up. I looking to pick up a cheap unit like this to get into the TIG side of welding, as I need to be able to do aluminum for intercooler pipes and stainless for exhaust work on my car build. Currently only have a Clarke Turbo Weld 100EN setup for gasless fluxcored MIG. Was going to pick it up today then hit the local welding supply for the Argon, but I think I'll hold off a bit as info seems scarce at the moment.


    _
    That is DC only, you won't be doing any aluminum with that. Double your budget and get an AHP 200x. Quadruple your budget and get a Tweco 186 or Lincoln sw200, or possibly an Everlast. Or if you have at least a 50 amp 220volt supply look for a used ac/DC transformer tig.

    Sent from mobile. Not responsible for Typos
    Last edited by soutthpaw; 01-09-2016 at 11:28 AM.
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  22. #47
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by MustangAndy View Post
    Anybody have more info on this particular unit? I'm eyeing this one and NOT the $200 one that everybody keeps bringing up. I looking to pick up a cheap unit like this to get into the TIG side of welding, as I need to be able to do aluminum for intercooler pipes and stainless for exhaust work on my car build. Currently only have a Clarke Turbo Weld 100EN setup for gasless fluxcored MIG. Was going to pick it up today then hit the local welding supply for the Argon, but I think I'll hold off a bit as info seems scarce at the moment.


    _
    .
    DC welder does not ordinarily weld aluminum without using flux which can be more difficult to remove than a steel flux.
    .
    1) i welded aluminum with a oxyacetylene torch and flux 35 years ago. (aluminum torch welding been done over 100 years)
    .
    2) then i used a carbon held in electrode holder to strike arc on any dc stick welder to weld aluminum with flux. single carbon arc welding with silicon bronze used on steel sheet metal has been done without TIG for about 100 years too. aluminum just requires a flux
    .
    3) and i stick welded aluminum with stick rod with flux but this is hard to do with thinner than 1/8 metal. the same stick rod can be used as tig welding filler rod flux and all on a dc welding machine.
    .
    4) also most use a aluminum solder / brazing rod on thinner that 1/8" material (no flux needed) and use a oxyacetylene or propane torch which is sold at HF
    www.alumiweld.com/
    .
    sure there are better welding machines that do aluminum welding more conveniently (without flux) for more money. guess you got to ask is welding without flux worth the extra money
    .
    when i hear you cannot weld aluminum with a DC welder obviously they are not telling the whole story. sales man are not going to be saying you can do it with cheaper equipment. they usually will try to sell you the most expensive equipment they can.
    .
    .
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 01-09-2016 at 11:52 AM.

  23. #48
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    .
    DC welder does not ordinarily weld aluminum without using flux which can be more difficult to remove than a steel flux.
    .
    1) i welded aluminum with a oxyacetylene torch and flux 35 years ago. (aluminum torch welding been done over 100 years)
    .
    2) then i used a carbon held in electrode holder to strike arc on any dc stick welder to weld aluminum with flux. single carbon arc welding with silicon bronze used on steel sheet metal has been done without TIG for about 100 years too. aluminum just requires a flux
    .
    3) and i stick welded aluminum with stick rod with flux but this is hard to do with thinner than 1/8 metal. the same stick rod can be used as tig welding filler rod flux and all
    .
    sure there are better welding machines that do aluminum welding more conveniently (without flux) for more money. guess you got to ask is welding without flux worth the extra money
    .
    when i hear you cannot weld aluminum with a DC welder obviously they are not telling the whole story. sales man are not going to be saying you can do it with cheaper equipment. they usually will try to sell you the most expensive equipment they can.
    And i'd like to see someone do some decent aluminum welding on a cheap dc tig.
    And nobody sells a flux tig filler wire for aluminum
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  24. #49
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble View Post
    And i'd like to see someone do some decent aluminum welding on a cheap dc tig.
    And nobody sells a flux tig filler wire for aluminum
    .
    you take aluminum stick welding rod and use as tig filler rod. thats what i always had done for over 3 decades. also can buy aluminum flux in a container and apply to weld joint. Amazon sells it for $14...... always amazed when people say it cannot be done whats been done for 100 years
    .
    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...=aluminum+flux
    .
    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...rod+flux+1%2F8
    .
    i am not saying you cannot do aluminum welding more conveniently with a more expensive welding machine. removing aluminum flux if it can be put in hot water it will come off. but just chipping it off it is tougher than a steel flux...... at least thats been my 35 years experience with it
    .
    like whats the big deal getting some rod and trying it out on scrap aluminum ? thats what i did 35 years ago. looks like rod is $21 for small container.
    .
    nobody sells it ?? ...... took all of 10 seconds to find people who sell it. personally i would spend less than $40 and try it rather than $200 to $2000 more for a more expensive welding machine.
    .
    .
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 01-09-2016 at 12:09 PM.

  25. #50
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    Re: New HF TIG/stick machine?

    http://www.amazon.com/Forney-45889-A.../dp/B001735VDA

    This machine does stick welding too. Maybe it's not feasible to do thin aluminum, but flux coated aluminum rods could be an option?
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