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Thread: God help us all... Here's your sign!

  1. #26
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    that settles it.



    i want to be a welding instructor!

    i dont think it's all their fault though. schools are putting less and less into blue collar teaching. the shop i learned in has had the small engines section replaced by classroom, and with new scheduling the kids have enough time to put on coveralls and take them off.

    i imagine most instructors are only there as that was the only opening available. they are probly degreed in language arts but got stuck with a welding job and no budget to make it "real"
    bosses stuff:
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    Kevin

  2. #27
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by wb4rt View Post
    Motochris,

    I understand, I truly do. Everyone ought to have to work with the public for 2 years.

    I used to sell farm supplies, in the spring the gardeners would come to buy their seed. When I asked how much they needed, the answer was often "enough for 2 rows". So I would ask, "how long are the rows", and you already know the answer - "right smart".

    I would just weigh up 5 pounds of whatever seed they asked for. And that is a LOT of turnip seed!!
    I've got 30 years in retail.
    Thankfully.....I'm leaving it next Friday for hopefully EVER. Sweet new job to start the new year.

  3. #28
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    You mean tires need air?Welder yep!I is a walder,no need for hands on,i learned it on the puter!God help us all!
    either you LIKE BACON or you're WRONG!!!! "There are three kinds of men.The ones that learn by readin'.The few who learn by observation.The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves"-Will Rogers

  4. #29
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by castle View Post
    Some might say that you are overly-critical, welderdave.
    If you're a teacher and can't read or have enough common sense to hook up a wire feeder with a manual right in front of you, you shouldn't be teaching. Wouldn't be surprised if half the students could teach the teacher. Not realizing you need a weld cable to the wire feeder and it's laying right in front of you takes the cake.

  5. #30
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by zank View Post
    An online welding class?
    Lincoln has welding video games too

  6. #31
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by 12345678910 View Post
    Lincoln has welding video games too
    Yeah, isn't there one where the big, bad pipeline welder beats up a progressive run up of guys on the firing line from the Welders helper, up to site superintendent?

    As he puts the guys down, he wins credits consisting of bottles of booze, welding rod and gas for his machine... He has to keep winning to keep welding to make more money. If he loses a fight, he has to go to the ER, or gets booted from the job. Then, every so often, the weld inspector busts you for a bad weld, and you get hit for money, or other stuff you have accrued in your "job box"

    Sounds like fun...
    Last edited by 7A749; 12-09-2015 at 09:46 PM.

  7. #32
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    There are some dedicated, skilled Industrial Arts teachers. Where I, then a generation later, my son went to high school IA was considered failure. Anyone with the inability to learn was sent to study IA. The board made up of bankers, lawyers, and doctors with maybe a stray stockbroker saw little value in working with one's hands. They offered little budget for IA courses. When I was there they had one IA teacher. He only knew about wood rasps, and sandpaper. He wanted students to nail two little pieces of board together, then sand, rasp, stain, and varnish candle sconces. They had some really nice Powermatic machines donated by some corporation when they upgraded. A few of us ignored the teacher, and did some advanced stuff. I still have a set of cabinet end tables I built. A donated engine machine shop sat there gathering dust. I'm told a former teacher used before his suicide.

    For both me, and 39 years later, my son. The school failed us in Industrial Arts education.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  8. #33
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Hell Bill, they don't even offer it around here anymore. It's a damn shame. When I was in junior high in the mid 80s, we had a real nice shop and a very knowledgeable instructor. It was a lot of fun and I learned skills I use to this day.

    Damn shame it's of such little value to anyone anymore.

  9. #34
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    I went to a trade school for high school and all the shop teachers were experienced journeyman tradesman before they became teachers. The welding teacher specifically came to that school to take over from the original teacher who was retiring. The last job he worked on was the Syncrude Canada facility. He even said that some of the instructors at regular high schools didn't have enough skills to be teaching welding. Sadly this school was converted to a regular high school with a focus on IT. The school built truck campers in one shop and building construction would build garages. I think the biggest job a couple guys in my class worked on was a tandem axle horse trailer. The school even had a service station and gas pumps. They claimed there just wasn't enough interest in the trades and not enough enrolment. I think it was probably more a case of the gov't wanting to convert it to a standard high school and not promoting the trades to junior high students. There were a lot students that had trouble in a regular school but there were also a lot like myself that were more interested in working with their hands. The school had a good reputation and students would get offered jobs because they went to the school. It's sad they auctioned off all the equipment and got rid of the trades.

  10. #35
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    I canít think of anything more disgusting than working where you would get your hands dirty! Thatís why I worked as an interior decorator.
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Donít pay any attention to me
    Iím just a hobbyist!

    Carl

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  11. #36
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    You are wearing a Dambodian dress shirt, it looks clean. Where I come from bankers wear that sort of outfit.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  12. #37
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Carl, what on earth would you know about welding, being a hobbyist and all?

  13. #38
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A749 View Post
    Carl, what on earth would you know about welding, being a hobbyist and all?
    Yeah, but Iím learning fast! Thanks to all the members here who are willing to pass along their knowledge!
    Donít pay any attention to me
    Iím just a hobbyist!

    Carl

    Dynasty 300
    V350-Pro w/pulse
    SG Spool gun
    1937 IdealArc-300
    PowerArc 200ST
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  14. #39
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    I figure you must live in a Holiday Inn Express at the rate you're learning

  15. #40
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    In grade 8 I started taking shops class. The wood shop tools that we we allowed to use consisted of 2 hand saws 1 hammer and 24 hand planes. We proceeded to take rough lumber and square the stock with hand planes to start any of our projects. The teacher told us that is how all construction is done. Most of the class spent 85% of their shop time with a hand plane. Their was table saws, routers, power planers, drill presses etc. in the shop but hey never got turned on. I have helped build 4 garages a 48foot by 72foot machine shed and my own home and cannot think of one lesson from that shop class that I used.


    Then I grade 10 I started a 3 year power mechanics course at a different school, the instructors were all licensed tradesmen and hardly a week goes by that I don't use some of the skills that I was taught in that course. Nothing annoys me more than when I hear people say " that kid should not go to a trade school he is smart enough for regular school"

  16. #41
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by dmatt View Post
    ...

    I hear people say " that kid should not go to a trade school he is smart enough for regular school"
    As my wife, who works for the state board of education, would tell you that the person who says that is truly ignorant.

  17. #42
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by dmatt View Post
    In grade 8 I started taking shops class. The wood shop tools that we we allowed to use consisted of 2 hand saws 1 hammer and 24 hand planes. We proceeded to take rough lumber and square the stock with hand planes to start any of our projects. The teacher told us that is how all construction is done. Most of the class spent 85% of their shop time with a hand plane. Their was table saws, routers, power planers, drill presses etc. in the shop but hey never got turned on. I have helped build 4 garages a 48foot by 72foot machine shed and my own home and cannot think of one lesson from that shop class that I used.


    Then I grade 10 I started a 3 year power mechanics course at a different school, the instructors were all licensed tradesmen and hardly a week goes by that I don't use some of the skills that I was taught in that course. Nothing annoys me more than when I hear people say " that kid should not go to a trade school he is smart enough for regular school"
    I believe the mission statement of the school, and priorities of the dominant member, or members of the board of directors will determine the value of the IA program offered. Just an observation: guidance counselors tend to see tradesmen as failures. Those not very bright are routinely directed into the trades.

    The truth is you need to be a well rounded person with no "weak links in your chain" to be a successful trades person. 100% of the people who impress me with their workmanship are way above average in their intelligence. I believe it's the other way around, it requires far more intelligence to be a good any variety of mechanic, than bank teller.

    Those who buy into the guidance councilor telling them because they aren't very bright, they should "get into a trade", are destined for failure.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  18. #43
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Teachers teach because they cant do.......
    Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...
    I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......
    You cant cure stupid..only kill it...

  19. #44
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by roadkillbobb View Post
    Teachers teach because they cant do.......
    Those who can, do.
    Those who can't do, teach.
    And those who can't teach, administrate.

  20. #45
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    If you're a teacher and can't read or have enough common sense to hook up a wire feeder with a manual right in front of you, you shouldn't be teaching. Wouldn't be surprised if half the students could teach the teacher. Not realizing you need a weld cable to the wire feeder and it's laying right in front of you takes the cake.
    Well maybe you will get lucky and all of the idiots will buy their machines and supplies off of eBay so you won't have to deal with them.
    'contaminating tungstens like there's no tomorrow'

  21. #46
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by bent View Post
    Those who can, do.
    Those who can't do, teach.
    And those who can't teach, administrate.
    Had a guy teach a project management course here one time. He started the class with a joke.... "Those who can...do. Those who cannot do, teach. Those who cannot teach ...manage. Those who cannot manage ...teach Management. So here we are..." Good guy and lots of good learnings from him.
    -Dave
    XMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled

  22. #47
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    I fear for the future of high quality tradesmen. I see it every day. The reason is twofold (probably more...)...

    As mentioned, there aren't as many high caliber instructors as there should be. Why not? Some welding programs just require that the students just get "introduced" to a few welding processes and not have to qualify in any of them. So, these instructors are sometimes "forced" into becoming welding instructors. They, and their students will just "dabble" in some basics.

    My company sent a bunch of our welding instructors, including myself, to Lincoln Electric in Cleveland for a week long seminar. Many of the other instructors there were from all different industries, like agriculture, upstart vo-tech schools, various fabrication companies, etc.

    Some of these instructors had their degrees in areas other than welding, but were being "forced" into having to start to teach welding. Some had never welded before! Others had tried it, but were not proficient at it. So, what kind of instruction can these types of instructors offer, with only a week long seminar under their belt?

    Personally, I had been welding for 40 years already when I was sent there. But...I still learned quite a bit! So...if someone like myself learned some new stuff, imagine what an information overload it was for some of the novices?!

    As far as new, upcoming, quality welders go...I see new students all the time. We trained over 300 of them this past year. Some of them really want to be good. Some of them could care less how good they are, as long as they end up with a job.

    And passion for the trade along with a good work ethic is something that you cannot teach someone. It has to be in their DNA. I have that trait. I've always wanted to be the best welder that I could. So, when I see these lazy loads come passing through our school, and are lucky enough to pass their bend tests then go on to get hired, it really depresses me.

    But we need bodies on the production floor.

    That leads me to another point, here...quite often, the acceptance of lackluster instructors and welders by the industry, is due to the desperate need for them, so we take what we can get.

    I'm gonna go have a beer, now....

    Rich

  23. #48
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by dmatt View Post
    Nothing annoys me more than when I hear people say " that kid should not go to a trade school he is smart enough for regular school"
    Pretty standard attitude these days.

    Americans stopped valuing American labor sometime during the cold war, when anything to do with labor organization was seen as communist (and inherently Anti-American). So people started pushing their kids into colleges to get four- year degrees. As time passed, more and more people started doing it. That resulted in a labor shortage, but rather than pay fair market wages, managers started moving jobs overseas. That way everyone can keep looking down their snoot at labor, while still keeping prices artificially low.

    As for the education system as a whole- it's gone to hell. Literally. One of the latest appointees down here in Texas came on the news with a spiel about how we need to have boards of preachers giving religious qualification tests to screen candidates for elected office, and that was before they started listing Moses as a founding father in place of Jefferson. We might as well stick a fork in it, call it done, and start over from scratch.
    Currently working as a Paralegal, but still interested in hobby welding.

    Miller Bobcat 225nt

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  24. #49
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by bent View Post
    Those who can, do.
    Those who can't do, teach.9
    And those who can't teach, administrate.
    And the further down that list you are the more you get paid.

  25. #50
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    Re: God help us all... Here's your sign!

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    It's like buying tires and not realizing you have to put air in them.
    Damn, now someone tells me. That guy at the shop was trying to get me to PAY him to rotate my tires. Duh, they do that all day long for free when I drive.

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