check this out a welder that uses water

[Rick V]

I am in CA now, I just emailed them to see about meeting up and checking it out. I update if we set something up

Hey soutthpaw - time is passing...
Any joyful email response yet?
If not, maybe you could phone them?

[bmyers]

I understand it must be some form of brown's gas. I just realized they claimed a true plasma out of this unit "heating materials by turning the water into plasma 14400°F (8000°C)." This is not done using brown's gas only. I don't think there is any way i could get that hot....

[wmgeorge]

Its not a true form of Browns Gas but uses the H20 that has been turned into steam as the replacement for air in the plasma generation. I'm sure its a patented process and kept pretty secret. The main point is that it is not magic and the energy cost as electricity input are not free. It has a limited use and for someone who does not want to mess with welding gases and tanks, it may be the answer.

[farmall]

If it's patented it can't be particularly secret.

[umahunter]

ever get any feedback on this ??

[soutthpaw]

Never got a reply from them. will have to wait till july.. Ill be back here in CA for 3 wks and I will call them. they are also running ads on LA area craigslist

[Rick V]

Never got a reply from them. will have to wait till july.. Ill be back here in CA for 3 wks and I will call them. they are also running ads on LA area craigslist

Not getting a reply + ads on LA craiglist = Mickey Mouse Welder!

[mudbugone]

The only one that seems to be offering any hands on info on this machine is the guy (Ian) in Australia that bought one. It's in the thread that farmall posted earlier.

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...t=41524&page=2

Since I'm a member there as well as here I've been following his observations as he's learning how to use the machine. There is obviously a learning curve with this new torch and it may take a while before he's mastered the unit. At least he's sharing his impressions on how well it works as he's learning it.

It's no wonder they aren't more available...their marketing system is the pits from all I can see. If you have a good product and can't market it well then it's not going to do well...just a fact of life.

I don't know if it's a good product or not and without more information on it I'm pretty sure it's going to remain a mystery.Could be fantastic or could be snake oil.

Since it's so unusual I'm surprised it's so unknown as a welding/cutting method,although the Dillon/Henrob/Cobra torch is pretty mysterious to a large portion of metalworkers and it's been around for many years.

[mudbugone]

I think I discovered why this isn't so well known in the US...

http://www.dailycommercialnews.com/nw/25234/tt

It's only been marketed here for a few months even though the system has been sold in Europe for some time.

I also found the manufacturer in China... (It was developed in Europe,but it's made in China)

http://www.gmdu.net/corp-679078.html

I think as knowledge and usage increases this might catch on as a usable tool... a few months is hardly enough time for it to become accepted.

I also discovered there are two torches for this machine.. a welding & a cutting ....this wasn't mentioned before. Here is a 2 part review on it...

http://tharwavalleyforge.com/worksho...eview-unboxing

[Rick V]

Mudbugone, thanks for keeping on top of this. The new links are quite interesting.

Still... no really new information on actual welding results - same old YouTube video showing 'welding' on a small diameter pipe. Why is that? Why no real-word welding results? Ever? Ever?

In that YouTube video, I don't like the looks of the final weld (dull grey)... I kept asking myself while watching the video of the weld in progress (melting of base metal and adding filler), "what's shielding the super-hot metal from the atmosphere?" Is it just H2O steam vapour from the torch? If so, I wonder how much hydrogen was dumped into the weld?

What is so unsettling about this 'revolutionary' process is that... we heard nothing about it before.
If this was introduced in Europe several years ago, how come our European members on several welding-related web sites have not chimed in. The only 'real' person who has recently bought one ($2,000) and reported on it (Hobart Forum) seems to be that rather odd fellow from Ausralia... and I can't say his reviews so far have been all that useful.

Anyway, I appreciate you keeping us informed.

[mudbugone]

LOL... I probably would be doing something else except I took a hard tumble last week and I either cracked or bruised some ribs on the right side so since I can't be doing something constructive I've been researching several interests online. It's less painful setting up than laying down... Coughing & laughing both hurt

I'm with most everyone that the info is so sparse it's questionable. I'm hoping (Ian) the guy in Australia, gets more bench time under his belt using his machine and is able to add more information about the functionality of this machine. He's already provided more in depth info than the manufacturer... I think we should consider that this isn't being marketed by a company like Lincoln or Miller... Although Miller didn't promote that battery powered welder of theirs as aggresively as I would have imagined.

I think we should remember the economy ain't exactly booming and promotion of any product isn't cheap. Even so I think they could post better YouTube videos instead of those Russian actors half a$$ing a demonstration... I think the issue is lack of marketing skills ,but I may be wrong and it might not be worth a flip. We'll see,it's still interesting.

[mudbugone]

This should cause some interesting comments.....The Manual

http://www.multiplaz.com/manual

All 43 pages of it!

[mudbugone]

Saw an ad yesterday on Ebay of a guy in Arizona City that's selling these units in case anyone close to there might want to track him down and try one of these hands on.

I may have saved the link if anyone can't find it and is interested...

[soutthpaw]

Interesting, I am reading through it now, Here is a first, I have not seen a welding manufacturer state the useful life of their product before. Multiplaz says theirs is 10 years. I sent them multiple emails via website and craigslist ad and so far no replies after a few weeks. wondering the lifespan and cost of the consumables like that cathode tube? I like this, If you want to shut down the torch in case of emergency, press and hold the start button FOR 6-8 SECONDS!... seems to be more of an oxy acetylene style of welding but using plasma instead of OA for the heat source..

[soutthpaw]

I do see their office is now listed on their contacts page. http://www.multiplaz.com/contacts Its in Santa Monica which is 20 mins from where I am staying in LA except for this weekend due to Carmageddon its probably 2hrs and 20 mins. I will stop in next week and see what they are all about.

[mudbugone]

I did save his ad..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Free Training for those in his location...

[Sandy]

Interesting, I am reading through it now, Here is a first, I have not seen a welding manufacturer state the useful life of their product before. Multiplaz says theirs is 10 years. I sent them multiple emails via website and craigslist ad and so far no replies after a few weeks. wondering the lifespan and cost of the consumables like that cathode tube? I like this, If you want to shut down the torch in case of emergency, press and hold the start button FOR 6-8 SECONDS!... seems to be more of an oxy acetylene style of welding but using plasma instead of OA for the heat source..

Do they ever say what/where the supply of consumables is? Internet only?

[soutthpaw]

Hey al, I am at their HQ office in santa monica right now abou to get a demo and some hood time with hopefully pics, vid and review to follow .... stay tuned. Nice friendly folks so far.

[soutthpaw]

I just got back from spending a few hrs down at MultiPlaz offices. spent and hour playing with the machine and a couple hrs talking with Patrica (CEO) and George(tech). Welders, politics, social issues etc. I know that quite a few outspoken members here would get along very well with Patricia... I gained some good insight to the small business world and views on current issues from talking with her.

Now onto the product. It is definitely a unique product that does what it advertizes on the website, videos etc. It is not some fly by night get rich quick scam or anything else. So from that point its definitely legit. Also they are still very much in a learning curve themselves as to what this product can do and the best ways to do it. To best describe it, it is a cross between a small plasma cutter and an OA/TIG setup in the way it cuts, welds and brazes. For a machine that has no internal or external compressor/ pump etc. the plasma cutting on 1/4 and below is quite impressive. It does almost look like a standard plasma cutter "flame" when cutting. It is however significantly slower than a traditional plasma. I did pierce and allow very accurate cuts in some 3/16" plate that I tried.
on the welding side. very much like OA welding as far as torch movement and feeding the rod.
Did try a couple piece of aluminum with unimpresive results, but in talking with George, this is one area they are trying to find a better method of joining. My observation was the the paste flux was burning off and creating byproducts around the weld as the flux was not intended to work with the temps of that tool... I suggested try the Al stick electrodes with the dry flux and see what happens..
Did also run a couple pieces of brass. was able to push the puddle right along on some gauge brass plate.

I was offered and accepted an invite to go back and spend a day of hood time and to bring any metals, rods etc i wanted to try out.

The machine use distilled water to make the plasma for cutting and Isopropol alcohol and water solution for the welding/ brazing side. the guns run abotu 20-30 minutes on a fill. the tip is a copper tip like a plasma cutter with a tungsten electrode built into the center of it... a knob on the back adjusts a cathode assembly that moves closer or further away from the tip to vary the output voltage. the buttons on the machine mode 1 and 2 each have 6 positions. I am not totally clear on how to describe how to gun adjustment and the mode settings on the machine work together. though the machine buttons seem to be more like an arc force or puddle control. One reason I wanted to go back and get some more hood time on the machine...

From a quality control standpoint, George does pullout every machine and fire them up, test run, check settings and calibration before they get shipped out. We spent quite a bit of time discussing quality control and infancy falilure. I made some suggestions on how to improve quality control and testing which I think they will probably adopt.... So very receptive to input from consumers. I was told that their current failure rate is around 1/2 % so far it seems only about 4-5 machines have had issues 2 are with a customer who apparently managed to kill 2 inverters in a matter of hours. thus he decided to return them less a restocking fee... From discussion and seeing their testing process it seems like maybe operator error. thus they are rewriting the connection and installation section of the manual to make it (what I would call) more idiot proof. more labels, color coding etc.

I did stop into their office totally unannounced and they were extremely helpful and receptive. If you are in the LA area, give Patrica a call and go try this thing out.

I will try and get some pics up when i get the time. gotta go play with the kiddos now.


It its impressive enough that I wanted to get some more time with the machine.. As of yet I am not sure what niche market it fills at the $1995 price tag. Which could buy a nice little inverter or mig welder and a plasma machine. Potential seems good for welding dissimilar metals, thin materials, limited need for plasma or thin material plasma

[Rick V]

Good for you soutthpaw!
I'm glad you got in to see it... and are going back.
Maybe your review can take the 'mystery' away!

[mudbugone]

Excellent Review...Thanks.

When you go back...Would you check on consumables...availability as well as cost..

There are the copper tips and then the inner electrodes? which resemble tungstens. Just curious.

[soutthpaw]

Excellent Review...Thanks.

When you go back...Would you check on consumables...availability as well as cost..

There are the copper tips and then the inner electrodes? which resemble tungstens. Just curious.

Oh I did ask George but he was not exactly sure and then I forgot to ask Patricia but around $4-6 a piece. There are nozzles, tips and a glass tube chamber the plasma mixes in, I did snap a pic which Ill get posted up some point. In the main unit he has for testing and demos he has been on the same consumables for over a month of use.. mail order direct from them is the only way to get consumables at the moment. said she is hoping to get it into at least one major retailer this year.
I did some quick video but I want to redo the video after getting some more seat/hood time or whatever you want to call it... As compact as the unit is, it does a lot of neat stuff... its pretty stout and heavy for its small stature. not like one of the Chicom machines with a little power supply stuffed in a big empty box to look tough. Looking forward to trying copper pipe etc. stuff I have generally sucked at in the past. dissimilar metal joining too..
It is not a hi volume machine, more of a precision machine.. Funny she told me that some Sweedish farmers had found a new use for it. sheep castration.... There is ingenuity for you. George has even done some welding on cast iron which is interesting as we know how much of a PITA that can be... I am open to ideas of metals, rods to try. I can stop by IMS in Brubank tmw and see what rems I can pick up... Lead would be interesting for those who are really into old classic car repair body work done the way it use to be.... CalOSHA would love that one.
The copper tip/ tungston is all one piece. think of a mig tip with a piece of tungsten permentantly attached inside it

[mudbugone]

Only things I could think of that you haven't covered pretty well would be aluminum ... OR... maybe heating metal to be able to bend it instead of using O/A.... You might want a high heat flux for cast iron welding like that used with a Cobra/Henrob torch (this reminds me of the Henrob torch the way it's used)

The best thing about this has to be the lack of any 'extras' like O/A or air for plasma cutting or argon for aluminum... Those items alone (or their absence) has to amount to a tidy sum at the end of a year.

I could see where this would be real handy as a portable rig. If you had a welder/generator and this you could accomplish quite a few tasks. When you consider all that other extra equipment & gases, then the $2000 price tag looks better.

The consumables don't seem that expensive,but like some plasma cutters they can be.

I'm getting the impression by your tone that this machine impressed you in the short time you got to use it.Good Luck with your next chance to play with it.

[killdozerd11]

So this is a offshoot of the old non transferred plasma torch

Back in the 70's Joe had 2 transferred plasma torches those were for cutting ran off tanks of nitrogen

But he said that they GE made a non transferred torch for plasma welding also

He used to work for them

i miss that old man

[ExpatWelder]

What is unsettling is that a goggle search and listing of 10 pages on the mulitplaz turned up:
a) many links/references to mulitplaz site - going back a few years (2008)
b) a bunch of web forums posing the question, "Have you ever heard of this?"
c) one... just ONE (1) partial review - the one that farmall posted from the Hobart form
http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...ad.php?t=41524

I mean... really! If this thing was even a 1/4 as good as the multiplaz manufacturer & distributors make out... how come after 3 years only 1 guy bought one and reported on it?
Seems that something is not right here.

Hopefully, soutthpaw on his visit to LA will get a hands-on demo... his views are anxiously awaited!

Not very many people have heard of or used a Petrogen torch either and they've been around a LONG time, I have used them for YEARS.