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Thread: Tig root critique and advice.

  1. #26
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by leeroy86 View Post
    I would love to pick his brain in some things
    Very slim pickens there buddy!
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  2. #27
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Lmao yea right

  3. #28
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Your root doesn't look terrible. I've seen a lot worse on actual test coupons. Not by people that passed, though. It'll smooth out with practice and a little more heat. On the cap, weave your stringers slightly. A bare wiggle, really. That stringer cap is really not bad. It's not perfectly even, but I can't see any real defects. QCs don't want to see wide weaves like you did on the fill pass.

    Plate doesn't prepare you for welding pipe. It's apples and unicorns as far as hand, wire, torch, body position and heat transfer. Practice 6G for tests and 5G because it's the most common real world position.

    Diameter of the pipe makes a huge difference as well. Smaller pipe is more difficult. Harder to walk the cup, have to move your body faster to reposition, heat builds up faster and stays longer for a given wall thickness. Many tests are 2-7/8" OD with varying wall thickness, so get some of that to practice. 6" is probably easier to practice on for a beginner.

    I prefer to walk the cup, but I often freehand the root on pipe 3" or smaller. You have to be able to anyway because you don't always have room to walk the cup. Sometimes when fitup is less than ideal, I'll back off on heat and freehand larger pipe if I feel like I need more control. I guess that really applies only to particularly wide gaps. Like if it's wide enough you need a guardrail to keep people from falling in.

    I backfeed the wire on the root. This allows me to better control the reinforcement inside. A heavier root doesn't suck back when I jump 0-30-40-50 amps on the HOT pass. I generally like a 9/64-3/16 gap and use 1/8 wire for the root. 1/8 tungsten. #8 or #10 jumbo gas lens. Amperage might be anywhere from 60-120 depending on pipe size, wall thickness, welding machine, how many hundreds of feet of cable, whether I feel like climbing down from where I'm at to change it after finishing another weld, time of day, tides, etc. I also like to wire wheel between passes as it helps subsequent passes tie in and avoid cold lap. A wire whirligig can also blend in light undercut on the cap.

    I only use 3/32 wire for bad (tight) fits. I might also use 5/32 wire if there's a big gap. It happens. Also 5 wire with a lot of heat for the hot and fill passes.

  4. #29
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    When we were tig'n carbon pipe in Houston, fit-ups were 5/32, sharp bevel (no landing), 1/8 70-s2 for the root. On my Lincoln, I was 3rd gear and 30 for the root. Rest the wire on a tack opposite side of where you are running the bead and feed the wire through the pipe. Wash the heat from side to side, remember to keep the wire fed and moving forward as you weld. Keep in mind with carbon steel you will have a silicon dot develop as you weld. Make sure you are at least remove this spec before you start another pass. I found, that 70-s2 was great for a bead pass (it could hold heat really well)- but it had a lot more silicon than 70-s6. I switched to 70-s6 for hot, fill and cap to finish the weld. Here's a hint, with roll outs especially, for me I like to turn my heat up and "feed" the wire while free handing the tig torch for fill passes. Heat for this depends on pipe size and thickness but generally 3rd and 80-100. You can carry a bunch of metal this way but like I said watch for that silicon. If you see it disappear, stop and grind it out. I generally used 3/32 wire for this because I always felt like I could control heat better. When you add wire you cool the weld down. Turn your heat down for capping- 3rd and 60-80. Walk the cup to make it look good.

  5. #30
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    @ leeroy86 - welding wizard Fieldres explain/demonstrate "shooting the gap" for TIG root work on pipe.

    The Theory/Approach


    The Demonstration
    Last edited by ManoKai; 01-01-2016 at 02:19 PM.
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  6. #31
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by lincweld View Post
    When we were tig'n carbon pipe in Houston, fit-ups were 5/32, sharp bevel (no landing), 1/8 70-s2 for the root. On my Lincoln, I was 3rd gear and 30 for the root. Rest the wire on a tack opposite side of where you are running the bead and feed the wire through the pipe. Wash the heat from side to side, remember to keep the wire fed and moving forward as you weld. Keep in mind with carbon steel you will have a silicon dot develop as you weld. Make sure you are at least remove this spec before you start another pass. I found, that 70-s2 was great for a bead pass (it could hold heat really well)- but it had a lot more silicon than 70-s6. I switched to 70-s6 for hot, fill and cap to finish the weld. Here's a hint, with roll outs especially, for me I like to turn my heat up and "feed" the wire while free handing the tig torch for fill passes. Heat for this depends on pipe size and thickness but generally 3rd and 80-100. You can carry a bunch of metal this way but like I said watch for that silicon. If you see it disappear, stop and grind it out. I generally used 3/32 wire for this because I always felt like I could control heat better. When you add wire you cool the weld down. Turn your heat down for capping- 3rd and 60-80. Walk the cup to make it look good.
    That's pretty much what they taught us at school. Very low heat (relative to the 250~325A suggested by TIG calculators), and you use small filler.

    The root looked ok relative to what some of the people at school were doing, but my advice would've been to slow down instead of just cranking up the heat. When you're going really low it's easy to leave railroad tracks like that, so you have to slow down a little. The puddle will heave when it's melted in properly.
    Last edited by teh603; 01-01-2016 at 02:25 PM.
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  7. #32
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Thanks for the replies gotta soak it all in and put it to work. What do you guys think about myself not having any formal welding school training? Will it hurt when I go to apply for jobs?

  8. #33
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Two more things I just remembered. First thing is concerning the bead pass, every job has it's specs but usually if the wall is broken down and at least flush, you should be good on x-ray. Second thing, when you're closing up your bead, obviously you won't be able to feed the wire through the pipe. If there's a time to "dip" the wire this would be the time. As you tie-in the weld, hang out a little for a few extra seconds so your bead can drop-in, so its consistent all the way around. Btw make sure you are feathering your starts and stops all the way around- at least that a good practice to have. Experienced guys get away with less grinding but I never chanced it. Good luck.

  9. #34
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by leeroy86 View Post
    What do you guys think about myself not having any formal welding school training? Will it hurt when I go to apply for jobs?
    No body ever ask me about schooling. They do ask about welding certs, just to ensure you have a better than even chance of passing their tests. Most employers are only interested in how much money you can make them.
    Dont pay any attention to me
    Im just a hobbyist!

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  10. #35
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by leeroy86 View Post
    Thanks for the replies gotta soak it all in and put it to work. What do you guys think about myself not having any formal welding school training? Will it hurt when I go to apply for jobs?
    Don't act like a know-it-all. That's the fastest way to get experienced guys to ignore you. Ask questions and have a positive attitude. I never went to school for welding. You need the job for experience but you need experience to get the job. Sometimes you just gotta "fake it till ya make it."

  11. #36
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Just a question for those who commonly root by feeding through the gap. Was this the first technique you learned for rooting? We were first taught to weld the near side (1/8th filler in a snug 1/8th gap and force buildup). Those who felt interested later went onto learning different techniques. Think a newby would have an awkward time controlling arc length. Plus that 3/16 gap on top takes a special technique to keep from having too much buildup.
    Last edited by OldSparks; 01-01-2016 at 05:31 PM.

  12. #37
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    At school, we only fed thru the gap for overhead. Mostly it was just feeding thru the near side, and then either shuffling or fingering the torch down the gap.
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  13. #38
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by teh603 View Post
    At school, we only fed thru the gap for overhead. Mostly it was just feeding thru the near side, and then either shuffling or fingering the torch down the gap.
    I guess I just fell into the mindset that for overhead ms I was most comfortable with the 1/8th gap. It seemed to me to actually start out with a wider gap called for more care all around the circumference. I was more concerned about limiting the topside penetration on a hot tube than I was about getting the bottom buildup on a cold tube. Preferred not to see anything wider than a snug 1/8th on up to .300 wall.
    Last edited by OldSparks; 01-02-2016 at 12:25 PM.

  14. #39
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Yeah... on that issue, pipe wasn't in my certificate. I was on an extremely tight budget (and still am, since the December hiring slump isn't quite over yet and the few jobs that I've seen have all demanded multiple years of job experience), so I went for the certificate I could afford instead of the one that paid the most. I'll be coming back to pipe once I've got a bit more money in the bank. Much as I wish it would, financial aid won't pay the bills.
    Currently working as a Paralegal, but still interested in hobby welding.

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  15. #40
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Keep in mind the magnetism that is created while tig welding. A 5/32 gap and 1/8 filler rod works better than it may sound. As the rod melts, it will be pulled easily into the bevel with a slight "side to side" motion. Yes, I would agree that it is more important to feed the wire through the pipe when at 6 o'clock. As you get closer to the top, gravity will help some, helping to "sink" the root. That's why as you close the weld up, you can dip the wire. Remember when you hot pass your bead will push in. IMO its easier to push a bead in with tig than stick. Take a fine grit sandpaper and clean you filler rod too. Also, nip the burnt ends off the filler to get clean starts.

  16. #41
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by leeroy86 View Post
    So you're doing a keyhole dip then do you keep the tungsten pointing at the opening or do you wash the filler up on the bevels and share any pics of you have any plz.
    i dont keyhole. I keep the filler in the puddle and keep moving. I do wash up on the bevel slightly to make sure i burn in the edges. Very slight side to side, just enough to point the arc right at the feathered edge to tie it in.

    I freehand most stuff ... and everything under 3" OD
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  17. #42
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by CEP View Post
    You will have to pass a 6-G test. I suggest you buy a length of 4” sch 80 pipe, and a length of 6” sch 80 pipe. Bevel 37 1/2 degrees, and start welding. With a 6-G Tig test you have to be able to weld with both hands.
    Thats not completely true, you can do a 6g with just one hand...I agree that its a important to learn how to use both hands though. How I do it with just my right hand is I start as far over up the bevel as I can and I can and run non-stop up my good side from 5 o'clock ish all the way to 1-1:30 o'clock. Then I lean around the coupon and rest my filler metal arm on the pipe and work my way up the bad side. This is for walking the cup, not sure how well it would work for freehand. But it works pretty well from root to cap.

    Edit: sorry, thats a pic of the good side...ill try and post a pic of what Im talking about when I get back to work.
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    Last edited by SR20steve; 01-02-2016 at 03:29 PM.

  18. #43
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    Re: Tig root critique and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by lincweld View Post
    Keep in mind the magnetism that is created while tig welding. A 5/32 gap and 1/8 filler rod works better than it may sound. As the rod melts, it will be pulled easily into the bevel with a slight "side to side" motion. Yes, I would agree that it is more important to feed the wire through the pipe when at 6 o'clock. As you get closer to the top, gravity will help some, helping to "sink" the root. That's why as you close the weld up, you can dip the wire. Remember when you hot pass your bead will push in. IMO its easier to push a bead in with tig than stick. Take a fine grit sandpaper and clean you filler rod too. Also, nip the burnt ends off the filler to get clean starts.
    Agree with lincweld 100%, I run a 5/32 gap and 1/8 wire, unless the gap starts closing up on me, then i'll switch to 3/32. On the bottom the gap needs to be big enough that you can at least have the wire slightly inside the pipe...even Jody's videos where he runs a TIG root where he does the forward and back motion, I guarantee the wire is ever so slightly on the inside of the pipe, thats the only way your gonna get a convex bead on the bottom.

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