Some everyday railings (and other cool stuff)

[MetalMan23]

So this falls other the "other cool stuff" category

I taught my dog how to do a wall rebound

LOL enjoy



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[winniweld]

Phil, I am putting together a quote for a set or handrails for a waterfront home. There are going to be three sets of large radius rails on granite steps down to the lake, 29 total steps, 60 linear feet . I’m going to need a roller to create the radii on the cap rails and channels and I’m looking for your input on which roller to go with. Looking through this thread I see you were using the HF roller but mentioned upgrading to the Swag off road roller. Did you ever upgrade to the swag unit, and have you tried swag’s cap rail die? If you are still using the HF roller have you done modifications to improve the roller?

Thanks for your input!

[MetalMan23]

Phil, I am putting together a quote for a set or handrails for a waterfront home. There are going to be three sets of large radius rails on granite steps down to the lake, 29 total steps, 60 linear feet . I’m going to need a roller to create the radii on the cap rails and channels and I’m looking for your input on which roller to go with. Looking through this thread I see you were using the HF roller but mentioned upgrading to the Swag off road roller. Did you ever upgrade to the swag unit, and have you tried swag’s cap rail die? If you are still using the HF roller have you done modifications to improve the roller?

Thanks for your input!

I use the straight hf roller, a previous one I welded wings on, to increase the leverage. The swag cap rail die is the one I use for that type of thing. If it's curved stairs, then it's a spiral, not just a radius, much more difficult. I typically price radius stuff 3x my base price, and spiral stuff 4x

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[winniweld]

In your opinion does radiusing the cap rail require the extended wings that swag offers? What about the hydraulic jack upgrade? What I’m trying to decide is the HF roller plus the swag wings plus the hydraulic kit plus the cap rail die puts you within 350 clams of the swag roller that comes with a die of your choice my choice would be the cap rail die) . It would seem that it could be a better move to just cry once and cough up the 899 for the swag unit rather than crutch the HF unit to do what I’d need it to do.

If you were starting out buying your first roller what would your choice be?

[tapwelder]

Hossfeld or American bender will earn its keep after this job. Build to a template and get zero distortion with the bender dies. You can bend multiple part without simultaneously .

Personally, a quality roll bender at >$5k or a manual/hydraulic bender are the best options for irregular curves (as most steps and walkways) or helicies are comparable option for railing. Hf and swag makes ring rollers, that will require "work around" capabilities.

I'd cry every time I look at it sitting in the corner knowing I spent 900 bucks on it and one set of dies.

I have a HF roller(purchased used, never used it) and a y2k roller also purchased used... nice, but rarely used.

Anyway, just another option. Good luck

[MetalMan23]

In your opinion does radiusing the cap rail require the extended wings that swag offers? What about the hydraulic jack upgrade? What I’m trying to decide is the HF roller plus the swag wings plus the hydraulic kit plus the cap rail die puts you within 350 clams of the swag roller that comes with a die of your choice my choice would be the cap rail die) . It would seem that it could be a better move to just cry once and cough up the 899 for the swag unit rather than crutch the HF unit to do what I’d need it to do.

If you were starting out buying your first roller what would your choice be?

If I did it again I'd just buy the swag roller. Much better quality.

I've busted bearings trying to roll tubing on the hf roller even with the wings.

So for a helical shape cap rail, what you'll have to do if you want to use the swag roller is to bend the radius first, do a test piece so you know what radius to roll, and then you have to twist the bent cap rail at intervals to make the helical shape.



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[MetalMan23]

Hossfeld or American bender will earn its keep after this job. Build to a template and get zero distortion with the bender dies. You can bend multiple part without simultaneously .

Personally, a quality roll bender at >$5k or a manual/hydraulic bender are the best options for irregular curves (as most steps and walkways) or helicies are comparable option for railing. Hf and swag makes ring rollers, that will require "work around" capabilities.

I'd cry every time I look at it sitting in the corner knowing I spent 900 bucks on it and one set of dies.

I have a HF roller(purchased used, never used it) and a y2k roller also purchased used... nice, but rarely used.

Anyway, just another option. Good luck

I did one radius railing job with a hossfeld type bender and it was a lot tougher than using the roller.

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[tapwelder]

"Hossfeld type bender" is key. I tried that, too. Appropriate dies on a real hossfeld or American bender make a a huge difference. Hossfeld has multiple options for bending cap and flat the hard way...no need for unique dies for different materials or thickness. No wasted time on trial runs either and less wasted material.

I have never been fortunate enough to bend to a perfect regular so with ring rollers I would always end up tweeking...essentially bending or unbending anyway.

Out of the crate, the base American bender will be useful for other bending needs without rail bending dies.

[winniweld]

Thanks for the input gents.

Tapweld i’ll Check out the hossfeld bender, I haven’t used one since shop class in high school I’ve primarily been using enerpac pipe benders or a couple well positioned trees/ posts since then. I’m pretty sure the hossfeld is going to be too pricey for my budget; the Swag is gonna cause serious pain if I go that direction.

Phil, thanks for your opinion and advice , i‘m a big fan of your work and I’d love to get into the high end market doing rails and such for the folks who own all the big money homes on the lakes around here and your input is truly appreciated.

[MetalMan23]

Thanks for the input gents.

Tapweld i’ll Check out the hossfeld bender, I haven’t used one since shop class in high school I’ve primarily been using enerpac pipe benders or a couple well positioned trees/ posts since then. I’m pretty sure the hossfeld is going to be too pricey for my budget; the Swag is gonna cause serious pain if I go that direction.

Phil, thanks for your opinion and advice , i‘m a big fan of your work and I’d love to get into the high end market doing rails and such for the folks who own all the big money homes on the lakes around here and your input is truly appreciated.

Any time.

One thing about the hossfeld, you will have to incrementally bend the cap, which can be done, but often you can see that it was bent incrementally, ie: little bends every 4" or so. I've done it both ways. But I love my roller.

for the price you can't beat the hf roller

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[MetalMan23]

"Hossfeld type bender" is key. I tried that, too. Appropriate dies on a real hossfeld or American bender make a a huge difference. Hossfeld has multiple options for bending cap and flat the hard way...no need for unique dies for different materials or thickness. No wasted time on trial runs either and less wasted material.

I have never been fortunate enough to bend to a perfect regular so with ring rollers I would always end up tweeking...essentially bending or unbending anyway.

Out of the crate, the base American bender will be useful for other bending needs without rail bending dies.

Right, an actual hossfeld is much better quality

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[tapwelder]

True you do bump to obtain the curve. However, the appropriate die dictate the size increment. If bumping along a 3 inch solid die, then it will take multiple short bumps make it look a smooth curve with a bunch of dimples and possibly kinks. However, a 36" radius edge bending die would allow you to move the metal a foot and obtain a dead flat smooth ungalled arc. A given die can be used for forming its rated radius and larger radii.

[winniweld]

What is the best way to determine the radius of the stairs? I'm sure you don't take the bender/roller onsite. Do you do this by measurement or do you use something to create a template that you then bring back to your shop? I'm going to have at least three separate radii and possibly more once the snow melts and i can get a really good look at what I'm dealing with.

[LtBadd]

True you do bump to obtain the curve. However, the appropriate die dictate the size increment. If bumping along a 3 inch solid die, then it will take multiple short bumps make it look a smooth curve with a bunch of dimples and possibly kinks. However, a 36" radius edge bending die would allow you to move the metal a foot and obtain a dead flat smooth ungalled arc. A given die can be used for forming its rated radius and larger radii.

Can you post a photo of such a setup?

[MetalMan23]

Wow it's been a while once I've posted here

Well check it out, here's the somewhat spiral railings I'm doing, by far the most complicated thing I've ever fabricated to date.




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[arcflash]

Nice work as always!

[Reebz]

Love your work. Where do you get the fancy "Crowns" at the top and bottom of the railing?

[ronsii]

Love your work. Where do you get the fancy "Crowns" at the top and bottom of the railing?

King metals handles a lot of that stuff

https://www.kingmetals.com/Catalog/C...ilId=172&NSM=Y

[Reebz]

Thank you

[wb4rt]

Hey Phil,

Did you buy those curved pickets or bend yourself? They look really good.

[MetalMan23]

Hey Phil,

Did you buy those curved pickets or bend yourself? They look really good.

I bent them myself

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[MetalMan23]

Here's some pics,

Craziest thing I've ever had to make, incredibly difficult. Customer was quite happy , I was quite happy with it, just not happy with how long it took me to get done. 5/8" solid pickets, 1/2x2-1/2" stainless oval bar for the grab rail, heated it I the forge, twisted it, then polished it again.

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[John T]

Wow
Whatever you got paid for that job
It should’ve been more.

Outstanding

[tapwelder]

Sweet job. Looks great. I really like the way it come together at the top of the arch. Almost a s-shape. Very pleasing

[MetalMan23]

Wow
Whatever you got paid for that job
It should’ve been more.

Outstanding

Thanks

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