Help on what plasma cutter to get - eventually I want to build a CNC

[Brand X]

I defer to your great knowledge of being a magazine expert on all subjects cnc plasma cutting.. (fanboy clueless)


The Hypertherm best quality specs on .120/.135 .190 stinks to high heaven. Pierce height is correct, cut height, and the lower dross is fine.. This is from people that cuts 1000 of pounds of steel with the machine..


This is for Tom, and others with a interest improving the cut face on 10 ga/.190 ms.. Some of this should apply to .250, once I get more stock to test..

The problem is with using 45 amps cutting thinner materiel. The factory best quality,other then Dross is not correct (IMO) You will never get the bevel problem/ cut face solved together, by using 45 amps cutting them. Meaning one will get better, and other will get worse..

Try this. on 10ga. shielded. 45 amp nozzle (non finecut) factory pierce height/cut height. 30 amps cutting output, 26 ipm, .050 kerf. 134 volts
.190 ms 35 amps, 26 ipm, .052 kerf,134 volts.. About 1000 percent improvement in the quality of the cut.. You can move a bit off of it, but really close.. This is one reason I think offering 30 amp nozzles with have some advantages, and further improvements.

You guys post up some cutting of best spec in the book. Real pictures of the bevel, (standing on edge,etc..) and close up the cut face.

I will show some of mine I just cut.

BDI go ahead show what you know on the issue..


Here is what I know now..

[BD1]

''BDI go ahead show what you know on the issue'' Well it may be easier to use your statement,'' If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong! ''

[jimcolt]

Brand X,

The specs that Hypertherm develops and puts in the cut charts in the operator manuals are designed to provide a combination of the least amount of dross and the least edge angularity for different materials and thicknesses. They are a good starting point for people that may not have 10 years of mechanized plasma cutting experience, and work well in the vast majority of plasma cutting applications. Further, the cut specs are where we measure consumable life......change amperage, change arc voltage, change air pressure and you will experience effects on consumable life. Your statement " The Hypertherm best quality specs on .120/.135 .190 stinks to high heaven" is subjective, and based on your particular needs to improve some segment of the cut....maybe angularity was most important....or you had to go slower due to machine instability....who knows? I am 100% sure that your definition of the best cut specs are not the same as everyone else's.

I applaud your efforts at improving the "book spec" cut quality.....and that is the reason why we build plasma systems with manually controlled amperage and air flow/pressure, as well as a variety of consumables combinations......so for those that want to fine tune.....you can. I cut some 16 gauge brackets with Fine cut consumables at 25 amps at .02" cut height and 45 IPM last night......had light dross that chipped off very easily and extremely good accuracy. For the 3 parts I was making those specs were perfect. However.....if I needed to cut a few hundred parts at a looser tolerance requirement....I'd go back to the book specs and cut 5 times as many parts in the same amount of time.

Keep posting your successes at tweaking cut quality......I'm sure someone will be interested. Some applications require tighter accuracy with no concern for speed, others require high speed cutting at the lowest cost.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

I defer to your great knowledge of being a magazine expert on all subjects cnc plasma cutting.. (fanboy clueless)


The Hypertherm best quality specs on .120/.135 .190 stinks to high heaven. Pierce height is correct, cut height, and the lower dross is fine.. This is from people that cuts 1000 of pounds of steel with the machine..


This is for Tom, and others with a interest improving the cut face on 10 ga/.190 ms.. Some of this should apply to .250, once I get more stock to test..

The problem is with using 45 amps cutting thinner materiel. The factory best quality,other then Dross is not correct (IMO) You will never get the bevel problem/ cut face solved together, by using 45 amps cutting them. Meaning one will get better, and other will get worse..

Try this. on 10ga. shielded. 45 amp nozzle (non finecut) factory pierce height/cut height. 30 amps cutting output, 26 ipm, .050 kerf. 134 volts
.190 ms 35 amps, 26 ipm, .052 kerf,134 volts.. About 1000 percent improvement in the quality of the cut.. You can move a bit off of it, but really close.. This is one reason I think offering 30 amp nozzles with have some advantages, and further improvements.

You guys post up some cutting of best spec in the book. Real pictures of the bevel, (standing on edge,etc..) and close up the cut face.

I will show some of mine I just cut.

BDI go ahead show what you know on the issue..


Here is what I know now..

[Jawslandshark]

I want to thank both Brand X and Jim Colt for all their knowledge on plasma cutting. If it was not for these two individuals posting on several of the message boards then my cuts would not look as good as they do now. It seems Brand X has owned more brands of plasma machines than anyone else that posts here, he posts good and BAD about all of them. Jim Colt probably has owned just as many but sticks to Hypertherm mostly in his comments which I completely understand. Both of these guys post pictures to back up what they are saying, if somebody put all their past comments in one post then all of the noob questions would be covered and most of the more technical aspects all in one shot. I will be looking for a Hypertherm 65 in the near future, the cuts I have seen from other people I know don't look much better than what I am getting now, but I think that comes down to the operator and knowledge. When I do throw out the cash for a Hypertherm I want improved cuts on the table, if it does not live up to all the hype then I will be very disappointed. I have two other plasma cutters to compare it against and looking forward to Hypertherm showing them both up even on the thin stuff!

[Brand X]

Brand X,

The specs that Hypertherm develops and puts in the cut charts in the operator manuals are designed to provide a combination of the least amount of dross and the least edge angularity for different materials and thicknesses. They are a good starting point for people that may not have 10 years of mechanized plasma cutting experience, and work well in the vast majority of plasma cutting applications. Further, the cut specs are where we measure consumable life......change amperage, change arc voltage, change air pressure and you will experience effects on consumable life. Your statement " The Hypertherm best quality specs on .120/.135 .190 stinks to high heaven" is subjective, and based on your particular needs to improve some segment of the cut....maybe angularity was most important....or you had to go slower due to machine instability....who knows? I am 100% sure that your definition of the best cut specs are not the same as everyone else's.

I applaud your efforts at improving the "book spec" cut quality.....and that is the reason why we build plasma systems with manually controlled amperage and air flow/pressure, as well as a variety of consumables combinations......so for those that want to fine tune.....you can. I cut some 16 gauge brackets with Fine cut consumables at 25 amps at .02" cut height and 45 IPM last night......had light dross that chipped off very easily and extremely good accuracy. For the 3 parts I was making those specs were perfect. However.....if I needed to cut a few hundred parts at a looser tolerance requirement....I'd go back to the book specs and cut 5 times as many parts in the same amount of time.

Keep posting your successes at tweaking cut quality......I'm sure someone will be interested. Some applications require tighter accuracy with no concern for speed, others require high speed cutting at the lowest cost.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

Jim,

My machine is a more stable machine then a arclight, because it generally uses the same parts, but upgraded ones. My friends machine Remember I am basing it on his machine too (85 with 45 amp consumables) His is the one nice build you have seen with Precision plasma kit with everything detailed perfect. Cut everything else, at all the different speeds, and amps Just fine. Same with mine. Not a issue, both are smooth machines.

Here is my issue with this thing. If you want to best quality settings.. What is the point? Might as well use production settings, and get pretty much the same result, and less dross. Why even have a best setting parameter when the only thing the best parameter setting allows for is a more cut speed, and somewhat less dross, Then highly accurate parts, and very crisp edges. Best quality when you have top edge rounding like every piece I have ever seen cut on 10 ga/etc and way too much bevel, is not best quality at all..45 amps is too much, and just does not make a quality cut. (IMO) Try to stand all four edges of a piece of a sq cut on edge, and also compare the cut face. sup-par, and no way around it. Cut one from your plasma-cam for all to see what factory best really means. It means everything else, but best quality. (IMO)

Yes we differ completely on the term best quality cut parameters.. Now if you made smaller amp standard consumables for the 85-65 torch, where would the best parameters be with them? I can tell you one thing the bevel/dross, and cut face would all align in a much better place then cutting 10 ga. @45 amps best quality. No doubt in my mind on that one..

[ZWasil]

Hi Mick, I'm new to the site, having trouble with a Harbor F plasma...surprise surprise...looking for help on that , but i noticed your picture...any chance thats Iron Man Ed Kretz? I used to paint replica cast-iron toys of him.

[scottpconley]

Hold off ,there is talk of a new unit.. I would not pull the trigger on a 45 just yet.. Watch the net and watch for discounts on the 45..Then you know it will be close.. Have a feeling it might address some of the issues I have brought up.. You will do just fine with the older air system on the 45. (IMO) You can see what 45 amps cuts like, those were pretty much Powermax 45 parameters. I am thinking a power boast, better torch design over the 45, and more options on consumables.. Only makes sense to me...we will see I guess. Reason I went with the 65, because I figure there will be some help for it soon also..

Do you think it would be better to get the older 45 and save money or see what the new unit has to offer?

[scottpconley]

Well thanks to all for your feedback, I wasn't expecting to create such a heated debate But debate is good and it was nice to see strong opinions on the subject.

I'm leaning towards the Hypertherm 45 - I like that it is a common name that comes up often (and employee owned and USA built. Nothing better than having a owner build your machine).

The 65 is a nice machine, but a hobbyist like myself its seem too much for what I need and will probably need in the near future. If I become more serious in it, then I'll buy a more powerful machine.

Thanks again to everyone.

[jimcolt]

BrandX, I finally got a couple of hours in my shop today....scrounged up a couple of pieces of 3/16" steel with the plans to develop cut specs with the Finecut consubales that would compare with the pics of cuts you posted. Just to benchmark the cut edge angularity vs the "book" specs that we provide for 3/16" steel (.187")....I cut one 3" square using the exact specs from the Powermax85 / 65 operators manual, which suggests the use of the 45 amp shielded consumables for best quality. I had not cut any 3/16" for a while.......and was pleasantly surprised. Here are pics of the cut.....no dross, stands on all 4 edges, sharp top and bottom edges. I see no need to develop "better" specs! These are right out of the Hypertherm operators manual.

First pic is the front side, second is the back, third is showing the operators manual and the specs from the cut chart for amperage, 45 amp shielded consumables, speed and cut height. These were cut on a 9 year old Plasmacam DHC2 with advanced height control. This is a piece of cold rolled steel.....hot rolled (more common in 3/16") will cut the same. Jim Colt

Jim,

My machine is a more stable machine then a arclight, because it generally uses the same parts, but upgraded ones. My friends machine Remember I am basing it on his machine too (85 with 45 amp consumables) His is the one nice build you have seen with Precision plasma kit with everything detailed perfect. Cut everything else, at all the different speeds, and amps Just fine. Same with mine. Not a issue, both are smooth machines.

Here is my issue with this thing. If you want to best quality settings.. What is the point? Might as well use production settings, and get pretty much the same result, and less dross. Why even have a best setting parameter when the only thing the best parameter setting allows for is a more cut speed, and somewhat less dross, Then highly accurate parts, and very crisp edges. Best quality when you have top edge rounding like every piece I have ever seen cut on 10 ga/etc and way too much bevel, is not best quality at all..45 amps is too much, and just does not make a quality cut. (IMO) Try to stand all four edges of a piece of a sq cut on edge, and also compare the cut face. sup-par, and no way around it. Cut one from your plasma-cam for all to see what factory best really means. It means everything else, but best quality. (IMO)

Yes we differ completely on the term best quality cut parameters.. Now if you made smaller amp standard consumables for the 85-65 torch, where would the best parameters be with them? I can tell you one thing the bevel/dross, and cut face would all align in a much better place then cutting 10 ga. @45 amps best quality. No doubt in my mind on that one..

[wornoutoldwelder]

BrandX, I finally got a couple of hours in my shop today....scrounged up a couple of pieces of 3/16" steel with the plans to develop cut specs with the Finecut consubales that would compare with the pics of cuts you posted. Just to benchmark the cut edge angularity vs the "book" specs that we provide for 3/16" steel (.187")....I cut one 3" square using the exact specs from the Powermax85 / 65 operators manual, which suggests the use of the 45 amp shielded consumables for best quality. I had not cut any 3/16" for a while.......and was pleasantly surprised. Here are pics of the cut.....no dross, stands on all 4 edges, sharp top and bottom edges. I see no need to develop "better" specs! These are right out of the Hypertherm operators manual.

First pic is the front side, second is the back, third is showing the operators manual and the specs from the cut chart for amperage, 45 amp shielded consumables, speed and cut height. These were cut on a 9 year old Plasmacam DHC2 with advanced height control. This is a piece of cold rolled steel.....hot rolled (more common in 3/16") will cut the same. Jim Colt

Take a bow, Jim