Cable Kink

[Cabbagehats]

I was at work consolidating a pile of old logging cable and that got me wondering. I've heard tell about twisting chain and the weak points that creates, so what about cable? would a kink in the wire rope create a similar weakness? Anyway, just a thought that's rattling around, thanks for any insight!

[thegary]

Yes a kink in a cable does weaken it. I do not remember how much though . I will have to get out my Bobs rigging handbook and see. It is in the shop though and I am down with the flu right now. Maybe someone else can give you specifics.

[Broccoli1]

Yes.

Kinks in cable are bad.

[Fast Leroy]

You can't take a kink out of a wire rope without weakening it, you should chunk it...

[Bls repair]

If the cable has a flat spot,separated strands ,broken strands,worn strands toss it

[mla2ofus]

Guys I worked w/ for a lot of yrs always called a cable kink a "cat's a$$". Just thought I'd throw a little humor in.
Mike

[docwelder]

a kink in wire rope distorts lay length and leads to uneven wear at the very least.

[Cabbagehats]

Alright, thanks for the info. Don't worry about me using these as cables, they've been lying around in the woods for years. The only thing we've been trying to do with them is make cable knives. Gotta get all the tar out of them first.

[xryan]

You're better off scrapping that garbage and buy a few feet of proper wire (ie: clean) to start with if you are trying to do blacksmithing.

[OPUS FERRO]

Cabbagehats

Your Wire Rope condition is a result of strand stretch - one side.
No one does 'auto-body' on WR.

It is ruined for certified/rated rigging - but depending on condition,
may still be suitable 'for farm duty'.


mla2ofus

Guys I worked w/ for a lot of yrs always called a cable kink a "cat's a$$".

In my neighborhood - what you call a 'cat's a$$' - was called an A-Hole.
I never knew a 'cat's a$$' - was anything other than a Blackwall Hitch.

http://www.2020site.org/knots/blackwallhitch.html

This - I only discovered this evening - and attribute to 'regional rigging nomenclature'.

What working men call things in the field - can't be found in a registry or tool catalogue.


Cabbagehats

Alright, thanks for the info. The only thing we've been trying to do with them is make cable knives.
Gotta get all the tar out of them first.

Way back when: I spent three days, in the 'Walking Transmission' of a 120 cu. yd. drag-line.

The tranny, and wire-rope lube was called Black Badger. Two-beefers held me up-side-down
over a bucket - while, I washing my hair in solvent.

Since - all of the great 'carcinogenic solvents' of yesteryear have been banned by the
la leche league - this is my drink of choice.

http://www.rapidtac.com/rapid-remover.html

It will cleanse surfaces that lacquer-thinner only beads upon.

Before solvents: you can heat it out at low temperature - but don't burn it out - or you
will/risk scaling the strands.

Somewhere in my archives: I have an article on Wire Rope-Damascus, written by two Phd.
metallurgists in their search to recreate Wootz Steel. I'll search . . .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz_steel


Opus




.

[mla2ofus]

Opus, from the link you provided my understanding is a blackwall hitch is used w/ natural and synthetic rope, not w/ wire rope.
Mike

[thegary]

We would still use cables with kinks in them as long as they were not too bad. Rust on a cable is far worse than a kink. Also a cable sling is allowed a certain amount of broken strands and still be serviceable. If you are going to use this for blacksmithing any foreign matter mixed into the cable will make smithing almost impossible.

[HT2-4956]

Here's a piece of 90mm cable that's got a slight kink in it.

[Cabbagehats]

Your Wire Rope condition is a result of strand stretch - one side.
No one does 'auto-body' on WR.

So, the stretch creates a twist, and then pulling on the resulting loop creates the kink?

It is ruined for certified/rated rigging - but depending on condition,
may still be suitable[I] 'for farm duty'.

This stuff is about an inch across, kinda heavy for "farm duty". Plus, I haven't learned the art of cable splicing yet. I believe all these ropes are leftover from the donkey engine that used to live here.

Way back when: I spent three days, in the 'Walking Transmission' of a 120 cu. yd. drag-line.

The tranny, and wire-rope lube was called Black Badger. Two-beefers held me up-side-down
over a bucket - while, I washing my hair in solvent.

Three days was enough? "Walking transmission" being a donkey engine, or scarier?

Since - all of the great 'carcinogenic solvents' of yesteryear have been banned by the
la leche league - this is my drink of choice.

http://www.rapidtac.com/rapid-remover.html

It will cleanse surfaces that lacquer-thinner only beads upon.

Before solvents: you can heat it out at low temperature - but don't burn it out - or you
will/risk scaling the strands.

Thanks for the link, will definitely check that out, I think New York is similar to California in banning useful products? I heard turpentine was banned for a while, we have a petroleum-based substitute . I think in cleaning the cable, that's where we are going wrong. We have been just chucking the cable in the forge and waiting for stuff to stop bubbling out. Gives us some record breaking clinkers as well. Are you saying heat the grease out and then use solvent on the residue?

Somewhere in my archives: I have an article on Wire Rope-Damascus, written by two Phd.
metallurgists in their search to recreate Wootz Steel. I'll search . . .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz_steel

Yeah, Wootz and Damascus are real interesting, we were really crazy to create something like it, but my friend's gone off to school and I'm procrastinating on other projects. We'll get back into it though.

[Cabbagehats]

Opus, from the link you provided my understanding is a blackwall hitch is used w/ natural and synthetic rope, not w/ wire rope.
Mike

I believe Opus was saying in his neighborhood a cable kink was called an A-hole, and a Cat's-azz referred to the blackwall hitch?

[Cabbagehats]

Here's a piece of 90mm cable that's got a slight kink in it.

Is that a bowline?

[Cabbagehats]

You're better off scrapping that garbage and buy a few feet of proper wire (ie: clean) to start with if you are trying to do blacksmithing.

Yeah, free sounded pretty good though.

[HT2-4956]

Is that a bowline?

Actually I think that might be a Double Spanish Bowline on a bight.

[Denis G]

The question and topic got me curious. Found this:
http://www.maintworld.com/HSE/Steel-...Is-Accountable

[Cabbagehats]

Actually I think that might be a Double Spanish Bowline on a bight.

how legitimate are knots in cable versus splices?

[Bistineau]

how legitimate are knots in cable versus splices?

Knots and splices are not allowed in wire rope used for overhead lifting. Knots are not allowed in any use for wire rope.

[mla2ofus]

If you need an eye in wire rope you can make a "molly hogan" but use opposing cable clamps to tie the tail and load sides together securely.
Mike

[OPUS FERRO]

mla2ofus

One of my faves . . .

If you need an eye in wire rope you can make a "molly hogan"
but use opposing cable clamps to tie the tail and load sides
together securely.

Mike

For decades: I only knew my favorite 'cable weave' as
a Molly Hogan. Its chronicled name - is a Flemish Eye.

It has many variants . . . but mla2ofus references the
'applied field version'.

http://www.google.com/search?q=flemi...Hfg5A1sQsAQIJQ

Once: you understand 'the lay', it is quick, and can be
done without a 'Marlinspike'.


Opus


ps

Send me a jug of Hooper Water - I haven't taste that
piss for fifty years + . . .




.

[norite]

Knots are not allowed in any use for wire rope.

You are correct unless you talk about mining. In underground mining, not so commonly anymore, they use a two or three drum winch called a "slusher". This is either air or electric powered and is used to pull a scraper back and forth to move ore in a workplace. Heavy wire rope is used to pull the scraper and often breaks or needs to be extended. This is done by forming a flemish eye in the end of one piece of cable then passing the end of the other cable through the 1st flemish eye and then making a 2nd flemish eye around the 1st cable. When put under tension by the slusher, the two eyes form an interlocking compact knot which can be pulled through the oversize (for the cable size) snatch blocks used to direct the scraper.

Years ago I remember an ironworker using a fabbed up rig to straighten wire rope slings when they got kinks in them. Haven't seen this done for years and it would be totally illegal to do so today. You need to not only discard a kinked or damaged sling, you should cut it to prevent it's reuse before scrapping it.

[OPUS FERRO]

norite

Down-South we call them Slusher Scrams. Stope Apes provide the muck and ore;
the slusher operator generally just pulls levers; that is, until a repair or a move.

One of my duties on another job was straighten kinked cable & chockers. I built a
dedicated station similar to a Hossfeld Bender, but dedicated to Chiropractic wire
rope massage.

I have also weld-spliced 100's of transport chain [gr. 7] segments - without failure.
The next failure was always: in/at the next weakest link - and not the weld. Both
practices were standard procedure because it was 9000 miles to the 'getting place'.

Sudbury, Ontario - 'I recognize that locale' . . . In 1983:

I worked for Redpath when sinking the Silver Shaft [6,200'] at the Lucky Friday,
North Idaho.

Work at this scale is unworldly - it brings new definition to: pick'in & grin'in - and
beyond 'machine & welding skills', requires 'a hyper-focus' for the benefit of your
coworkers.

http://www.redpathmining.com/
Surf the pics in each menu chapter - for samples of really big . . .

http://www.hecla-mining.com/lucky-friday/
The second video is a series of short vignettes, and pretty tastee . . .

Enjoy the dark depths . . .


Opus