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Thread: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

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    Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    Hi guys!

    I need some help trying to figure out how this 316 stainless steel manifold was welded together (see photos).

    I can tell that it was TIG welded, but I'm wondering specifically if filler rod was used or not?

    To me it looks like the longitudinal butt weld was fused together without any filler rod, but the connection around the perimeter of the tubing and the bracing does have filler.

    I'm hoping someone with more TIG experience can tell right away.

    Also, can you guys tell if any post weld finishing/cleaning was done? The welds look quite clean, and there is very little heat tint that I can see, but it doesn't seem to me like they took a grinding wheel to it or anything like that...

    Any help you guys can offer is much appreciated!

    Thanks

    NS
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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    If I was to guess, I'd say that the longitudinal and the tube to header were done with mig. On the longitudinal it looks like a whip maneuver similar to a 6010 pass and then heavily wire wheeled. On the tubing, the combination of some bulkier spots and some longish bead design just don't strike me as tig. Admittedly, I have been wrong before.
    Last edited by OldSparks; 03-23-2016 at 07:11 PM.

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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    It looks like it could be tig but not by a great tig welder. Also since the welds have no color they were wire brushed. Imo once someone gets how to tig weld pretty good the finished product looks better not brushed.
    Last edited by Showdog75; 03-23-2016 at 07:44 PM.

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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    Yeah it looks like filler was used. Just too bunchy so to speak.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    Likely filler was used as porosity can sometimes be a problem without filler (at least on steel so I assume SS would be similar). The wire contains deoxidizers to help clean the weld. Does look more like MIG though.

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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    So the million dollar question......why does it matter? Are you reverse engineering these and looking to manufacture them?
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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    That was all TIG welded (just not very pretty) WITH filler wire then wire brushed when it was cold because it probably looked like @$$. Dave, porosity would be completely independent whether filler was added or not. If they bushed it while it was still hot with a clean stainless brush it would have looked a "little" better and shined up nicer without the residual discoloration outside the HAZ.

    BTW, what is it anyway? Home brew radiant heat manifold?
    Ryan

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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonS View Post
    Hi guys!

    I need some help trying to figure out how this 316 stainless steel manifold was welded together (see photos).

    I can tell that it was TIG welded, but I'm wondering specifically if filler rod was used or not?

    To me it looks like the longitudinal butt weld was fused together without any filler rod, but the connection around the perimeter of the tubing and the bracing does have filler.

    I'm hoping someone with more TIG experience can tell right away.

    Also, can you guys tell if any post weld finishing/cleaning was done? The welds look quite clean, and there is very little heat tint that I can see, but it doesn't seem to me like they took a grinding wheel to it or anything like that...

    Any help you guys can offer is much appreciated!

    Thanks

    NS
    .
    could be tig but i have seen big dia titania (Rutile) flux stainless rods welding down or flat but slightly tilted down and fast travel give relatively flat welds too. if using a whip you can get bead ripple if whip timing off a bit
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 03-24-2016 at 10:01 AM.

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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    Quote Originally Posted by derekpfeiffer View Post
    So the million dollar question......why does it matter? Are you reverse engineering these and looking to manufacture them?
    Nailed it.
    Last edited by NelsonS; 03-24-2016 at 11:29 AM.

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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    a lot of welders curious on how something was welded.
    .
    i have often seen big structural steel welds on fans and punp bases and wondered if fluxcore, mig or just big stick rod
    .
    sometimes 3/16" 6013, 7014, 7024 rod welds are really hard to tell from mig or fluxcore at times

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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    Likely filler was used as porosity can sometimes be a problem without filler (at least on steel so I assume SS would be similar). The wire contains deoxidizers to help clean the weld. Does look more like MIG though.
    Dave I tig stainless boiler tube for a living. One great thing about stainless tig is you don't have to worry about porosity. Stainless basically doesn't gas. Now you must purge it but wind won't gas your weld. I'll take stainless or inconel any day over carbon because of this.

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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    I haven't done much TIG but stainless is nicer to work with. I made a drawer for my welding table out of 12 gauge steel and even with really clean and ground edges, still had to use a little filler wire to prevent porosity. Maybe the chromium or something in stainless keeps it from developing porosity?

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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    Lots of stainless tubing for breweries, pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities, etc are welded with an automatic pulsed TIG process that uses no filler. It's a beautiful finished product.

    You can weld carbon, stainless, and aluminum with no filler metal, and with proper shielding gas coverage you don't need to worry about porosity or other defects.

    However, the strength of the weld is inferior to that of the surrounding base metal when done with carbon steel or aluminum. In fact, aluminum can be reduced to 60% of its yield and ultimate tensile strength when welded in this fashion.

    This phenomenon does not occur when welding stainless steel without filler.

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    Re: Can you tell if filler rod was used? (Photos)

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    I haven't done much TIG but stainless is nicer to work with. I made a drawer for my welding table out of 12 gauge steel and even with really clean and ground edges, still had to use a little filler wire to prevent porosity. Maybe the chromium or something in stainless keeps it from developing porosity?
    Dave,

    More than once over the years I've run into trying to tig weld on thin carbon steel sheet metal and just had horrible porosity problems (even when using filler metal). I think it all comes down to the fact that there's just some poorly made product out there that just hasn't been deoxidized (or de-sulphurized, phosporized, etc.) as good as it should have been.

    This is a good article to read on the subject.

    http://www.thefabricator.com/article...elding-process

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