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Thread: The last word on 7014?

  1. #26
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Branscom View Post
    7024 is NOT on its way out.
    7024 is used in the horizontal or flat position. The"2" of the 7024.
    It is a iron powder rod and it makes a large fillet weld which is good for many things.
    It makes a good fillet weld around the deck of a boat where you want a joint that is easy to clean ,smooth , thereby reducing uneven weld surface that can start corrosion if the paint is not smooth. 7024 deposits a lot of metal.

    Many people on this forum need to take the time to find out what different rods are used for and what the numbers mean.
    44 years experience and you dont know that welding joists to the iron is a flat weld? maybe you need the pocket guide fool.

    It IS on the way out. Why? because almost all structural engineering requirements require a low hydrogen electrode. For detail, for moment welds, even for DECK. the "4" of 7024 means its not low hydrogen.

    the "8" in 7028 means that it is. 7024 also has a YIELD strength in the 40K range. aint that awesome? why not just use some generic wire from the dollar store? NUCOR also states that "impurities" are often found in a bead of 7024, even in a visually perfect bead.

    "7024 deposits a lot of material" No ****. Its why its called a fast-fill rod. 50% iron powder (by weight) in the flux.

    go ahead and use it for your hobby welding on your boat. You wont find it on structural jobs (as I said earlier, but you want to talk about painting boats) these days except by some ratty outfit. I also invite you to call the steel joist manufacturers and ask them if you can use 7024 on their product. You've also, very obviously, never burned 7028, so let me tell you about it. Looks like 7018. Burns like 7018. SOUNDS like 7018. Light slag electrode (cause you do know 7024 is a heavy slag electrode). Slag peels off or chips with a single tap on a good weld. Which makes it user friendly. Which makes the change to a new electrode easier.
    Last edited by tenpins; 08-27-2011 at 07:42 PM.
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  2. #27
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Then whats the advantage to 7028?
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  3. #28
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruark View Post
    Thanks, but I think I'll go with welding them directly to the bucket. That's the standard way to do it, as it has been done with tens of thousands of FELs out there. The one in that picturre is a classic example. In fact, you can buy hooks (as I have) called weld-on hooks, shaped specifically for being welded in this manner.

    I'm planning to use 7014, although a sizable number of people out there will shudder in horror at the idea of using anything besides 7018(AC).
    There are weld on hooks by Gunnebo that specifically state to use 7018.
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  4. #29
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanse View Post
    Then whats the advantage to 7028?
    Low hydrogen.
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  5. #30
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    I prefer bondo and super glue , if i think its gonna be structural ill use super man's laser beam eyes....I charge 115 a hour, cant make this **** up.
    I forgot how to change this.

  6. #31
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    I bookmarked the link, but don't know who originally posted it.

    https://www.welding.org/c-22-general-welding-books.aspx
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  7. #32
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick-man View Post
    There are weld on hooks by Gunnebo that specifically state to use 7018.
    Specifically, it says "AWS A 5.1 E 7018 or equal." Does "or equal" include 7014?

    A comment on the guy a few posts back who mentioned not wanting "anyone," evidently his boss using 7014, welding a 60-foot metal sign that could fall on somebody:

    Here, once again, we have somebody stating, or at least clearly insinuating, that 7014 produces a weak, inferior weld. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've read something like, "never use 7014 for any weld where strength is important," the idea being to use 7018 instead. You get the impression 7014 is seen as a weak, crummy rod that you would never use for anything serious. Miller's web site lists rods that are "frequently used": 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018, 7024. 7014 isn't even mentioned.

    Yet there are still those who support using it, including farmers and ranchers who have used it for years on heavy farm equipment and never had a weld failure. Even my own experience: the other day I welded the end of a 4" piece of 2" X 1/4" square pipe to a sheet of 3/8" plate with 1/8" 7014 @ 130 amps, running the bead all the way around. Then I tried knocking it off with a 5 pound sledge. I beat the living CRAP out of that thing until I was ready to drop from exhaustion. No luck; it was absolutely immovable. Of course, that wasn't a scientific test, but that damn 7014 seems like pretty strong rod to me.

    Again, input or reflection from knowledgeable people is welcome.

  8. #33
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruark View Post
    Specifically, it says "AWS A 5.1 E 7018 or equal." Does "or equal" include 7014?

    A comment on the guy a few posts back who mentioned not wanting "anyone," evidently his boss using 7014, welding a 60-foot metal sign that could fall on somebody:

    Here, once again, we have somebody stating, or at least clearly insinuating, that 7014 produces a weak, inferior weld. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've read something like, "never use 7014 for any weld where strength is important," the idea being to use 7018 instead. You get the impression 7014 is seen as a weak, crummy rod that you would never use for anything serious. Miller's web site lists rods that are "frequently used": 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018, 7024. 7014 isn't even mentioned.

    Yet there are still those who support using it, including farmers and ranchers who have used it for years on heavy farm equipment and never had a weld failure. Even my own experience: the other day I welded the end of a 4" piece of 2" X 1/4" square pipe to a sheet of 3/8" plate with 1/8" 7014 @ 130 amps, running the bead all the way around. Then I tried knocking it off with a 5 pound sledge. I beat the living CRAP out of that thing until I was ready to drop from exhaustion. No luck; it was absolutely immovable. Of course, that wasn't a scientific test, but that damn 7014 seems like pretty strong rod to me.

    Again, input or reflection from knowledgeable people is welcome.
    I would ask what grade of steel the sign was made from and reference tensile and yield strengths of both ... its alot easier than typin all that lol
    I forgot how to change this.

  9. #34
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Not advocating anything but here is a link to a "somewhat" subjective test. The OP is a retired bridge weldor of 30+ years.

    http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/w...reak-test.html

    I use 7014 on the farm only for cosmetic purposes where there is a lot of restarting. IE - building a brush guard for the tractor from 2" x 3/8" flat stock. At the ends of the T's a little filler is needed to finish off the joint. It is then ground flat/flush for appearance.

  10. #35
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Stick welding is a art and 7014 take alot of the art out of it so welder are afraid. At a weld school the teacher started a 7014 and laid it on it side it made a weld better looking than some people can make.All rod have their place.

  11. #36
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLC View Post
    I prefer bondo and super glue , if i think its gonna be structural ill use super man's laser beam eyes....I charge 115 a hour, cant make this **** up.
    No duck tape? ain't no way I'd trust that.
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  12. #37
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Bastard View Post
    You are making foolish, brash and ignorant comments.
    They are not relevant to the discussion, relevant to 7014, nor relevant to general welding practices.


    Welds today don't typically fail "joints" do.
    Came in in the middle of this, and read your post.

    I agree.

    A poorly designed, or prepared, joint is a good place for trouble.

    Lots of people pile on the welds without actually looking at what made the joint fail in the fist place. A good deal of failures are due to bad design in the weldment. You can't "weld" your way out of a bad design. Strength of the welding material, ie the consumables, doesn't make up for a bad design.

    If you're working with mild steel.............remember YOUR WORKING WITH MILD STEEL.

    I think it's stupid for someone to boast that "my weld held, but the parent metal failed". Another way to look at it is................"I failed to design a proper joint" It really isn't about the small area of the weld, it's about the work the whole joint or weldment has to do. It's an art. It's about stress and loading
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  13. #38
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruark View Post

    Here, once again, we have somebody stating, or at least clearly insinuating, that 7014 produces a weak, inferior weld. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've read something like, "never use 7014 for any weld where strength is important," the idea being to use 7018instead.

    Yet there are still those who support using it, including farmers and ranchers who have used it for years on heavy farm equipment and never had a weld failure. .
    I don't know where those negative ideas come from. I've used 7014 for years with no problems.
    There's no doubt 7018 is better with more tensile strength, but I've never found anything wrong with 7014.

    I was introduced to 7014 about 25 years ago by an old man that owned a local welding supply shop.
    He said the 7014 rod has been around for a very long time, and said they built a lot of ships with it back in World War II.

    Before I retired, I used 7018 in the shop most of the time. But when I had to go do emergency repairs in inclement weather, 7014 was my go-to rod. And as far as I know, none of my welds ever failed. I figure if it's strong enough for battleships, it's strong enough for my needs.

  14. #39
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Breaking News Everybody!!
    The Pity Train has derailed at the intersection of Suck It Up and Move On, and Crashed into We All Have Problems, before coming to a complete stop at Get The Hell Over It!!! Any complaints about how I Operate this Household can be forwarded to 1-800-Waa-Waaaa!!!! This Is Dr. Sniffle Reporting LIVE From Qiitchur Bitchin!!!! Suck it up Cup Cake, Life Doesn't Revolve around YOU!!

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  16. #40
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Bastard View Post
    Breaking News Everybody!!
    The Pity Train has derailed at the intersection of Suck It Up and Move On, and Crashed into We All Have Problems, before coming to a complete stop at Get The Hell Over It!!! Any complaints about how I Operate this Household can be forwarded to 1-800-Waa-Waaaa!!!! This Is Dr. Sniffle Reporting LIVE From Qiitchur Bitchin!!!! Suck it up Cup Cake, Life Doesn't Revolve around YOU!!
    "Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749
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  17. #41
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Thank you FatBastard, that was very helpful.

  18. #42
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruark View Post
    Thank you FatBastard, that was very helpful.
    Helpful and funny, cool.

    Now stop beating this poor dead animal.

    Random comments from blowhards telling you at least clearly insinuating, that 7014 produces a weak, inferior weld. and you are falling in head first.

    Why would this poster on a public forum carry any weight with you? You don't know them? Why would you trust them? They have been welding for years so they say. They know what they are talking about because they have "welding foreman" under their fake name?

    Dude you need to go to the makers of the filler and hear what they have to say.

  19. #43
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    I don't have a dog in this fight, but post #9 by CEP pretty much answers the whole 7014 issue.

  20. #44
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by welds4d View Post
    I don't have a dog in this fight, but post #9 by CEP pretty much answers the whole 7014 issue.
    For the average guy, I think a bend test is good enough.
    This one really surprised me. Probably only ran a hand full of this in my life.
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  21. #45
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    FB: you're a poster on a public forum, too, does that make you a blowhard? I'm just a beginner trying to learn, and everywhere I look, I read comments about never using 7014 for any weld where strength is important, it's used mainly for sheet metal. So that's some kind of urban legend? Or maybe it's one of those self-perpetuating rumors - one guy reads it and repeats it, then another guy reads it and repeats it, etc. and eventually everybody believes it simply because they're heard it so many times. It's not that I believe what I read here, it's trying to determine WHAT to believe.

    And yes, of course I checked the Lincoln/Hobart sites. All they say is "ideal for applications requiring light penetration and faster travel speeds." Lincoln adds: "good for maintenance and repair welding, sheet metal and fillet welds, and heavy sections." Uh, what does that NOT include?

    Let me put it this way: would you build a trailer with 7014?

  22. #46
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruark View Post
    FB: you're a poster on a public forum, too, does that make you a blowhard?


    And yes, of course I checked the Lincoln/Hobart sites. All they say is "ideal for applications requiring light penetration and faster travel speeds." Lincoln adds: "good for maintenance and repair welding, sheet metal and fillet welds, and heavy sections." Uh, what does that NOT include?

    Let me put it this way: would you build a trailer with 7014?
    First YES until you have some reason to put some faith in my knowledge YES.

    Would I build a trailer using 7014, sure as the material and joint allowed I would not hesitate.


    To get to the final answer you want you need to define all aspects of a welded joint.

    See the attachment to get an idea of some of the items that go into making a weld joint. Then add to it the base material its limitations and the stress applied be they static or dynamic or cyclic.

    You will never find the answer you are looking for because you want (or appear to want) a universal yes or no. That don't happen, a safe bet is to say when in doubt use 7018 why because is is called out specifically in so many places. Is 7018 to only choice always NO!
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    AWS A5.1/A5.1M: 2004 E7014
    ASME SFA-A5.1: E7014
    ABS: E7014
    Lloyd’s Register: 1M
    DNV Grade: 1
    GL: 1
    BV Grade: 1
    CWB: E4914

  24. #48
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    AWS A5.1/A5.1M: 2004 E7018 H4R
    ASME SFA-5.1/A5.1M: E7018 H4R
    ABS: 3Y H5
    Lloyd’s Register: 3YM H5
    DNV Grade: 3 YH5
    GL: 3 YH5
    BV Grade: 3YHHH
    CWB/CSA W48-06: E4918

  25. #49
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Aws a5.1/a5.1m: 2004 e7018 h8
    asme sfa-a5.1: E7018 h8
    cwb/csa w48-06: E4918-h8

  26. #50
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    Re: The last word on 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pavinsteelman View Post
    7014 is a iron powder 6013 good for sheet metal and poor fit up . We use it on my side job to tack detail on structural. At harris we use 8018 c 3 as we do a lot of 588 work a terriable tack rod. E 7024 is a low hydrogen fast fill Jet rod good for structural.
    If I may, I will correct you a little. 7024 is a not a low hydrogen rod...7028 is. both rods are wonderful rods. 7028 you have to keep in an oven 7024 you do not.

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