The last word on 7014?

[Welder Dave]

I agree too for a sales tool and Xray work you can not go wrong.
When I was doing a lot stick welding I would buy 250 pounds at a time.

The work I did could xray years later to follow all the rules for E7018.
After the North Ridge earthquake the went back and Xray most welds in the earthquake area.
The good news for me I use mostly E7018 since 1970's. None of my work failed the test.

The downside to (E7018) rod it is slower and doing quoted work it is not the best.

But doing work by hour I like (E7018) rod . The customer is paying for my work and doing the best job.

Why use by hour work fluxcore like E71T-11 and E71T-1 with CO2 witch is very fast and is just good as E7018.

As far as all other work most rods will work too.

Dave

E71-T11 as good as 7018? You have got to be kidding! I respect you have cancer and used to run a shop welding various things but making a comment like that shows very clearly that you have a lot to learn regarding filler metals. 7018 is not much slower than 7014 and as was mentioned the slag doesn't have a tendency to hide flaws (sometimes serious flaws) in the weld. I've tried 6013 and find it to be the absolute worst for hiding serious flaws in the weld. For general welding it has nothing to do with sales using 7018. The project dictates what rods would be ideal. The actual welding is usually the quickest part of a project. It's all the prep work and fitting that takes the most time. That's where experience really comes into play. Using 7018 when maybe 7014 could have been used doesn't usually amount to a hill of beans or having to stock a bunch of extra electrodes. If the job was something like building a large oilfield tank in the field, then the best option would be to buy some 7024 for that specific job. I worked in a couple tank shops. Anything out of position was done with 6010 or 7018 depending on what was being welded. All the tank seams and bottom were welded with 7024 in the basically flat position. Rectangular tanks and tank tops were often welded with 6010 downhill. Some tops were welded with 6010 horizontal. 6010 welds were done when you have an inside corner to inside corner fit up to produce a fillet weld on the outside. Didn't have to do an inside weld as the outside fillet is the proper size of weld for the thickness of steel.

[WNY_TomB]

E71-T11 as good as 7018? You have got to be kidding! I respect you have cancer and used to run a shop welding various things but making a comment like that shows very clearly that you have a lot to learn regarding filler metals. 7018 is not much slower than 7014 and as was mentioned the slag doesn't have a tendency to hide flaws (sometimes serious flaws) in the weld. I've tried 6013 and find it to be the absolute worst for hiding serious flaws in the weld. For general welding it has nothing to do with sales using 7018. The project dictates what rods would be ideal. The actual welding is usually the quickest part of a project. It's all the prep work and fitting that takes the most time. That's where experience really comes into play. Using 7018 when maybe 7014 could have been used doesn't usually amount to a hill of beans or having to stock a bunch of extra electrodes. If the job was something like building a large oilfield tank in the field, then the best option would be to buy some 7024 for that specific job. I worked in a couple tank shops. Anything out of position was done with 6010 or 7018 depending on what was being welded. All the tank seams and bottom were welded with 7024 in the basically flat position. Rectangular tanks and tank tops were often welded with 6010 downhill. Some tops were welded with 6010 horizontal. 6010 welds were done when you have an inside corner to inside corner fit up to produce a fillet weld on the outside. Didn't have to do an inside weld as the outside fillet is the proper size of weld for the thickness of steel.

.
6013 needs to run a bigger dia rod and run it hot (7014 is same rutile flux just got iron mixed in flux so rod acts like bigger size)
.
1/16" thick butt weld 3/32" at 70 - 75 amps i call it dab dab welding youtube videos plenty showing it 3 seconds stop arc wait 3 or more seconds and repeat
1/8" thick butt weld 1/8" at 90-100 amps (thicker stuff dont have to dab dab weld just mostly normal welding more seconds but might need to stop every few inches to cool)
.
sure use 3/32" 6013 at 70 amps trying to weld 1/4" thick and it be cold compared to 5/32 rod at 130 - 140 amps, 6013 is sheet metal rod sure 1/4" material and thicker
7018 is usually better, really I have been welding over 40 years and usually use 6010 and 7018 and if somebody said they stick welded 1/16" thick wall tubing (handrail)
i would say not possible and yet with 6013 it easily done (relatively easy).
.
they also weld stainless tubing 1/16" wall stick welding with 5/64" 308-16 (rutile flux like 6013), really check out youtubing videos on thin 16ga and .040 thick material
stick welding butt joints, some of those guys are good at welding

[smithdoor]

AWS SPEC IS 70,000 to 90,000 for E71T-11 the wire is 77,000 psi.

About same for E7018

But remember if I am doing work hour it is E7018.
If doing QUOTE work it is fluxcore.

Dave

E71-T11 as good as 7018? You have got to be kidding! I respect you have cancer and used to run a shop welding various things but making a comment like that shows very clearly that you have a lot to learn regarding filler metals. 7018 is not much slower than 7014 and as was mentioned the slag doesn't have a tendency to hide flaws (sometimes serious flaws) in the weld. I've tried 6013 and find it to be the absolute worst for hiding serious flaws in the weld. For general welding it has nothing to do with sales using 7018. The project dictates what rods would be ideal. The actual welding is usually the quickest part of a project. It's all the prep work and fitting that takes the most time. That's where experience really comes into play. Using 7018 when maybe 7014 could have been used doesn't usually amount to a hill of beans or having to stock a bunch of extra electrodes. If the job was something like building a large oilfield tank in the field, then the best option would be to buy some 7024 for that specific job. I worked in a couple tank shops. Anything out of position was done with 6010 or 7018 depending on what was being welded. All the tank seams and bottom were welded with 7024 in the basically flat position. Rectangular tanks and tank tops were often welded with 6010 downhill. Some tops were welded with 6010 horizontal. 6010 welds were done when you have an inside corner to inside corner fit up to produce a fillet weld on the outside. Didn't have to do an inside weld as the outside fillet is the proper size of weld for the thickness of steel.

[Welder Dave]

You are totally missing the point. Tensile strength is almost not even in the equation. Ductility, elongation, charpy V values, etc. are what really define the differences in filler metals. Of the 4 basic most common rods for mild steel, they all have the same core wire, the flux has more to do with the mechanical properties of the weld. Another example is some people have used 11018 on heavy equipment thinking the ultra high tensile strength will make for stronger welds. It doesn't, it makes the weld more brittle and susceptible to cracking. If you were welding T1 steel 11018 would be the rod of choice but for mild or low alloy steel 7018 is a much better choice. Some things like crane booms will call for something like 8018C-3 which has 1% nickel. The nickel adds toughness to the weld. For general welding on mild steel where a low hydrogen rod is used, there's no real benefit to using a higher tensile rod and/or a rod with extra "ingredients" like nickel. The type of weldment and the environment it's welded in dictates what are suitable filler metals. It would be nice if everything could be done with sub-arc but it's not possible. Tig produces the best welds when done properly but is the slowest process. However it also produces sound welds where stick or wire feed processes would fail. Tig done with a coat hanger of unknown tensile strength would be stronger than E71-T11.

E71T-11 is not in the same league as 7018, not even close. The original Lincoln NR211 (E71-T11) called for something like 18 passes on 5/8" plate to pass a bend test. I think the newer NR211MP has limited the max. thickness that it is recommended for. 18 passes sure wouldn't speed up production over 7018. You could probably pass a bend test with 6 passes or less using larger dia. 7018. The 18 passes for the E71-T11 is required to get a fine enough grain structure so it can survive a bend test. Heck I've seen 7018 root passes alone easily pass a bend test. You'd be wasting you time trying to bend an E71-T11 root pass.

[StandarDyne]

Tig done with a coat hanger of unknown tensile strength would be stronger than E71-T11.

Wait, say what?

[Eelspike]

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...ature/c165.pdf

This is why I love Lincoln the testing and development of welding procedures in support of American industry. Welding to D-1.8 earthquake code make the hill a little steeper and the weld procedure 7018 is less restrictive. For production Innershield® NR-232AWS E71T-8 and Innershield® NR-233AWS E71T-8 for all position work are fantastic wires, we used to run Innershield® NR-305AWS E70T-6 for flat and horizontal with ceramic backers and i really liked it but we don't see it much anymore because contractors want to use one wire. NYC is not an earthquake zone so mostly D 1.1 and D 1.5 but certain site and projects have D 1.8 welding standards applied which I assume are in place for insurance in case of explosion, maybe we need a bomb standard D 9-11.

Flux core gets a bad rap and there are some one pass only wires that have no real place in construction but for with the Lincoln, ESAB and Hobart E71T-8 wires we use in 1.6 and 5/64 (mostly 5/64) the biggest issue is the welders experience with the wire it takes some time to get really comfortable with the wire but then it goes anywhere.

SO THE LAST WORD ON 7014 IS 7018

[Munkul]

I wish that was the last word...

[smithdoor]

I do agree E7018 is last word for construction work.
But today in California they using lot of fluxcore and does meet AWS sepc.

FYI I do not like E7014
But it still E7014 meets AWS SPEC.

If use E7018 per AWS and manufacturer spec is the best rod.

But I have not personally test E71T-11 but sepc is about same as E7018

FYI I have tested E7018 and E71T-1 with CO2 and test (bend and hardest) was about the same.

Dave

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...ature/c165.pdf

This is why I love Lincoln the testing and development of welding procedures in support of American industry. Welding to D-1.8 earthquake code make the hill a little steeper and the weld procedure 7018 is less restrictive. For production Innershield® NR-232AWS E71T-8 and Innershield® NR-233AWS E71T-8 for all position work are fantastic wires, we used to run Innershield® NR-305AWS E70T-6 for flat and horizontal with ceramic backers and i really liked it but we don't see it much anymore because contractors want to use one wire. NYC is not an earthquake zone so mostly D 1.1 and D 1.5 but certain site and projects have D 1.8 welding standards applied which I assume are in place for insurance in case of explosion, maybe we need a bomb standard D 9-11.

Flux core gets a bad rap and there are some one pass only wires that have no real place in construction but for with the Lincoln, ESAB and Hobart E71T-8 wires we use in 1.6 and 5/64 (mostly 5/64) the biggest issue is the welders experience with the wire it takes some time to get really comfortable with the wire but then it goes anywhere.

SO THE LAST WORD ON 7014 IS 7018

[Munkul]

But I have not personally test E71T-11 but sepc is about same as E7018

You have been told over, and over, and over, that you are WRONG about this. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

How many times do we have to say it?

You clearly read other people's posts... do you comprehend? Is there any light behind the door? Is anyone home?

Mate, we all know you're not having a great time with Cancer... but seriously. It's beyond "cutting you a bit of slack". Have you got dementia?

[smithdoor]

Just read the specs on both from the manufacturer and AWS. I did not write the specs.

Now remember when selling a job that is by hour E7018 is best.

If it is a quoted job I would with manufacturer and AWS that makes the best time.

Dave

You have been told over, and over, and over, that you are WRONG about this. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

How many times do we have to say it?

You clearly read other people's posts... do you comprehend? Is there any light behind the door? Is anyone home?

Mate, we all know you're not having a great time with Cancer... but seriously. It's beyond "cutting you a bit of slack". Have you got dementia?

[smithdoor]

I would take a guess you have used very little Fluxcore.
I used both E7018 and E71T-1 w/CO2 a lot.

From pass E7018 I weld about 20% time. With E71T-1 I can weld about between 30% to 50% of time.

So welding by the hour E7018 is a lot better for the bottom line.

Dave

You have been told over, and over, and over, that you are WRONG about this. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

How many times do we have to say it?

You clearly read other people's posts... do you comprehend? Is there any light behind the door? Is anyone home?

Mate, we all know you're not having a great time with Cancer... but seriously. It's beyond "cutting you a bit of slack". Have you got dementia?

[Eelspike]

It's ground hog day every day here at work it's 7018 1/8 and 5/32 for stick and 5/64 flux core. If I don't like the fit up I weld the root pass on full pen welds with 7018 and weld out with flux core but I don't ask anybody I just do it. It was on a bridge welding bearings and they brought out some 7014 I'd probably throw it over get my check and move on.

[smithdoor]

Good one 👍

Dave

It's ground hog day every day here at work it's 7018 1/8 and 5/32 for stick and 5/64 flux core. If I don't like the fit up I weld the root pass on full pen welds with 7018 and weld out with flux core but I don't ask anybody I just do it. It was on a bridge welding bearings and they brought out some 7014 I'd probably throw it over get my check and move on.

[Welder Dave]

This is getting utterly ridiculous!!! Throwing E71-T1 (dual shield) into the equation just muddies the water even more. It IS similar to 7018 in most regards and used for the same type of applications, dynamic loads. Filler metal specs. involve a lot more than just reading what the tensile strength is. Saying E71-T11 is like 7018 is equivalent to saying A36 mild steel is like T1 steel. The only similarity is they are both steel. As far as the filler metals they are both for steel but that's where the similarities end. Please please please try and comprehend this. In the mean time stop posting all of your stultiloquence. And what the he77 does by the hour have to do with anything?????

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...20%3A%20babble

[smithdoor]

Best way to make money 💰

Dave

This is getting utterly ridiculous!!! Throwing E71-T1 (dual shield) into the equation just muddies the water even more. It IS similar to 7018 in most regards and used for the same type of applications, dynamic loads. Filler metal specs. involve a lot more than just reading what the tensile strength is. Saying E71-T11 is like 7018 is equivalent to saying A36 mild steel is like T1 steel. The only similarity is they are both steel. As far as the filler metals they are both for steel but that's where the similarities end. Please please please try and comprehend this. In the mean time stop posting all of your stultiloquence. And what the he77 does by the hour have to do with anything?????

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...20%3A%20babble

[smithdoor]

So you say AWS sepc is wrong.
https://weldcotemetals.com/dataFiles/specs/techE71T-11.pdf

http://www.pinnaclealloys.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Pinnacle-Alloys-E7018-E7018-1-12.16.pdf

Dave

This is getting utterly ridiculous!!! Throwing E71-T1 (dual shield) into the equation just muddies the water even more. It IS similar to 7018 in most regards and used for the same type of applications, dynamic loads. Filler metal specs. involve a lot more than just reading what the tensile strength is. Saying E71-T11 is like 7018 is equivalent to saying A36 mild steel is like T1 steel. The only similarity is they are both steel. As far as the filler metals they are both for steel but that's where the similarities end. Please please please try and comprehend this. In the mean time stop posting all of your stultiloquence. And what the he77 does by the hour have to do with anything?????

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...20%3A%20babble

[Welder Dave]

The AWS spec. isn't wrong... You are. Your 1st link shows E71T-11 is limited to 3 passes. 7018 is unlimited. It doesn't even mention what types of weldments it is designed for. Below is a link to the most popular 7018 used in Canada. Notice how the elongation for 7018 is 32% instead of 22% for E71-T11 and there is no CVN (Charpy V Notch) spec. required or specified with E71-T11. CVN ratings basically tell you the filler metal is designed for dynamic loads. The 2nd link shows the data sheet for NR211MP that is one of the most common E71-T11 wires. Compare the recommend applications between 7018 and E71-T11. Note the maximum recommended thickness for NR211MP is 1/2" even when using 3/32" dia. wire. Also having some formal schooling on filler metals would show there is much more to know about the differences in filler metals than what is shown on the date sheet.

https://certs-msds.airliquide.ca/Doc...20SMAW_E_2.pdf

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...P/c3200010.pdf

[smithdoor]

Your right AWS has limit of 3/4" plate for E71T-11

Dave

The AWS spec. isn't wrong... You are. Your 1st link shows E71T-11 is limited to 3 passes. 7018 is unlimited. It doesn't even mention what types of weldments it is designed for. Below is a link to the most popular 7018 used in Canada. Notice how the elongation for 7018 is 32% instead of 22% for E71-T11 and there is no CVN (Charpy V Notch) spec. required or specified with E71-T11. CVN ratings basically tell you the filler metal is designed for dynamic loads. The 2nd link shows the data sheet for NR211MP that is one of the most common E71-T11 wires. Compare the recommend applications between 7018 and E71-T11. Note the maximum recommended thickness for NR211MP is 1/2" even when using 3/32" dia. wire. Also having some formal schooling on filler metals would show there is much more to know about the differences in filler metals than what is shown on the date sheet.

https://certs-msds.airliquide.ca/Doc...20SMAW_E_2.pdf

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...P/c3200010.pdf

[Eelspike]

This is not and apples to apples at all E71-T11 NR211 has very little utility in construction we did use it for welding brace tubes on one decent size job because the slots in the tubes had gaps and 211 can fill gaps pretty well.

The flux core that we use where 7018 is normally used for multiple pass welds in all positions is NR 232 class of wire E71-T8
usually 5/64. Experienced welders put in tons of this type of flux core in construction projects around the country every day. I just recertified vertical and overhead on 1-inch coupons with ESAB Coreshield-8 a couple of weeks ago. Ironworking welders are expected to have stick and flux core tickets at a minimum flux with gas is also used but normally a job certification.

Never once saw 7014 in the field sometimes 7016 for galvanized or occasionally 8018 or 9018. Welding barges long ago I use 1/4-inch 7024 running something over 400amps. That was on big fillets and flats

[smithdoor]

E71T-11 is not a heave plate wire.
It does limitations.
Field work I used E7018.
For speed I used E71T-1 w/CO2

Today for quoted work I look at E71T-11 upto 3/4" plate and E71T-8 for over 3/4" plate. Still say with AWS Standards.

For work by the hour E7018. I like using E7018 for most welding where do not have to worry about the clock.
I did purchased E7018 in 250 pounds at time.

I do not use E7014 or E7024.
I have not used or purchased E7016.

Dave

This is not and apples to apples at all E71-T11 NR211 has very little utility in construction we did use it for welding brace tubes on one decent size job because the slots in the tubes had gaps and 211 can fill gaps pretty well.

The flux core that we use where 7018 is normally used for multiple pass welds in all positions is NR 232 class of wire E71-T8
usually 5/64. Experienced welders put in tons of this type of flux core in construction projects around the country every day. I just recertified vertical and overhead on 1-inch coupons with ESAB Coreshield-8 a couple of weeks ago. Ironworking welders are expected to have stick and flux core tickets at a minimum flux with gas is also used but normally a job certification.

Never once saw 7014 in the field sometimes 7016 for galvanized or occasionally 8018 or 9018. Welding barges long ago I use 1/4-inch 7024 running something over 400amps. That was on big fillets and flats

[Welder Dave]

I still don't think you're understanding that E71-T11 is NOT a structural filler metal. E71-T8 is. It also appears you just found out E71-T11 is for 3/4" and under and now say you'll use E71-T8 for over 3/4". Considering the same applications for under 3/4" and over 3/4" E71-T11 is still not the wire to use if it's a structural weldment or is something that would call for a 7018 equivalent. Have you ever used E71-T8 and more importantly have you ever priced it in comparison to E71-T11? 7016 is basically an earlier version 7018. Some members on here say it has a different arc and welds a little different than 7018 but is preferred on some applications.

[Munkul]

I think you're flogging a dead horse Welder Dave.

We got some 7016, we don't like it. Very stiff arc, very fast freeze which can be useful, but it's not as easy to run as 7018, and the slag is not self releasing in the slightest.

[Lis2323]

I think you're flogging a dead horse Welder Dave.
.

The upside is I’m glad to see he’s feeling well enough for the task


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[Welder Dave]

It might be dragging me down too! LoL Maybe it keeps Smithdoor entertained but it is way beyond ridiculous and I am tired of trying to reason with him. He just doesn't comprehend even the most basic explanations.

I'm really miffed about something else though. A club that has an event at my MX track has just announced they are having a points series to draw more riders. The BIG problem is the points series only involves 3 out of about 8 tracks and I'm not one of them. I'm not trying to be selfish wanting a points event but think the points series should involve all tracks so they all have an opportunity for better attendance. It wreaks of favoritism to me. No one was informed of this decision and I found out in a mass e-mail announcing the next event. It really pi$$es me off. I'm sure other track owners who were excluded are too.

[smithdoor]

What ever I say and AWS has published is wrong.
My back ground is structural and have to follow all the specs given by others.

I am glad to see Welder Dave is doing better.

Dave

The upside is I’m glad to see he’s feeling well enough for the task


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