help - lock box (overseas cont. ) , suggest cut resistant material

[123weld]

I been toying around w/ makeing a lock box for a overseas container. I stated w/ a 6x6x.25 tube, a foot long. Plan on laying it horiz across the two doors. I sliced the tube length wise, so i have two halves. I was thinking of building a box w/in it. maybe.25 or .5" stainless. Thinking of suspending the box w/in the the 6" sq tube box, w/ some clearence between the walls, so its like a empty cavity on (at least 3 sides and the two ends). I'm trying to think what i can fill that cavity w/ that would complicate a theif w/ cutoff wheels or a torch. What can i fill the cavity w/? permatex 2, some sort of puddy, tar, poison, cemet like products, something of lead carbide or similar, etc., I think i'm more scared of cutoff wheels than a torch. Also open to any completely other ideas, or things youve seen to secure the doors. But i'm trying to think of something to raisee havoc w/ cutoff wheels ??

[bent]

Fill it with cement. If you want more security, weld in some expanded metal to help prevent the cement from breaking and falling out. Scrap carbide is cheap now, buy some scrap inserts from ebay and mix them in the cement. Copper plates are sometimes used to defeat burning bars.

At what point does it become easier to go through the side or roof?

[123weld]

thanks for your ideas, i like them. yea i know, they could hack through the 16ga side. but i'm gambling on the typical drug addict thinking the lock box is a typical one, and exhaust his recourses for the night. i have about a two 12 oz cans of carbide inserts from the 90s. i'll look into what you said.

[tinker001]

You are thinking the wrong way. Add lights that come on with motion. That will stop most people right there. Because they can be seen. messing around something they should not be.Solar panel motion light are fairly cheap to be had. ask any of the police around what is the best way to stop a break-in. A lighted area should be at the top of their list.

[ironmangq]

slide a pepper spray canister in there and pour the concrete around that, anyone who gets that far will get a knarly surprise when they hit the canister.

[joeymac]

slide a pepper spray canister in there and pour the concrete around that, anyone who gets that far will get a knarly surprise when they hit the canister.

YES!!! that's awesome. Mix small pepper spray canisters in the concrete.

And a 16ga side is anemic. A fire axe will hack through even 12 gauge steel with good speed. 10ga or better for the sides with a layer thin stainless brazed over it (to stop oxy/fuel cutting).

[wornoutoldwelder]

A bucket of thick gooey roofing tar should work nicely....it will instantly clog wheels and catch fire/smoke if heated with torch.

[123weld]

pepper spray, lol. anyone know how small the canisters are, or the cost? i found a whole 1 gallon paint can of carbide today. most of it is .250 - .500 round about 1.5 in length. i used to braze them on excavation teeth. then almost a couple hundred inserts, most uncoated and no w/o a hole in them, meant for brazing. anyone know if they can be brazed or attached to stainless somehow ? i like all the ideas, roofing tar etc. instead of cement i was thinking of some kind of 2 step epoxy or something. i know theres some kick *** epoxys for gluing studs in cement that may flow and fill nicer to fill the cavity and surround the carbide, but never used them or know much about them. i'm all ears on anymore ideas substitutes of cement

[bent]

Its hard to beat the cost of cement. Those "kick ***" epoxys have a "kick ***" price tag to match. The cement only has to hold the carbide, pepper spray canister, or whatever in the matrix and look impressive. Its the filler that does the work.

Carbide is normally silver brazed for usual applications, but it should be able to be attached with silicon bronze as well.

[outdoort]

I'm kinda laughing just thinking of a would be thief grinding away or jackhammering the concrete out and BAM! Pepper spray all over the place lol.

[Denis G]

If this is for something being shipped overseas, you might be messing with custom officials who will want to inspect everything. That probably risks getting stuff impounded if not worse.

[123weld]

no, not overseas, it's permently laying in the yard. i was hoping to make the clearence in the cavity about 3/8". i guess i could go a little more, but anymore, I'd need to exceend the outer horiz dimensions , i got american puck lock inside, and it needs a fair amount of clearence to back it off. thats why i was thinking of something more fluidy flowy than cement. i scrapped the idea of using the carbon 6"x.25" tube, and got some .25 x6 stainless flat bar for the outer box to make an outer box, and i have enough 5"x.5" stainless flat for the inner box. i also drilled six .625 holes through the door frame, and am running six .625 round stock pieces of stainless through the box, which i'll plug weld in, so if they try to cut the welds from the b/t the box and door, box will still be anchored. i expanded outward around the box w/ .187 stainless on outside, and some longer strips on inside. alot of work and expensive materials so far. it would be a shame if they cut the hinges or went through the sheetmetal. cement can kinda be smashed off easily, so thats why i'm trying to come up w/ an an alternative.

[12345678910]

Around here, the truckers that travelto the USA seal the back doors with nut and bolt instead of padlocks.

The monkeys jump on the back of the truck armed with a hammer to whack cheap padlocks, but they don't carry a pair of wrenches.



More than one padlock hole will let you do that kind of thing.



If you put round carbide rod inside a bored sleeve, pipe, but with a nice fit and a little grease

The cordless grinders will go through the steel, but the inside rod will spin.

I'd alternate between hardened steel Drill rod W1 or O1 and carbide
The brittle carbide is susceptible to a hammer whack

[docwelder]

try a good padlock. the sargent and greenleaf 833 padlock is pretty impressive without any extraneous protection. this is one tough mf lock. ceramic inserts to prevent cutting and medeco cylinder to make it pick resistant.

[docwelder]

123, instead of deterring would be thieves give them a hand. install a regular 110v household outlet near the lock and wire it up to 440v.

[labparamour]

My thought: anyone with tools to attack your lock cover could cut above/below the lock and unhook the door dogs, couldn't they?
Certainly have worthy padlocks but I like the motion activated lighting, too.
Maybe build latch like a safe....with bolts that secure inside the interior of the conex?

DB

[outdoort]

What we talking here anyway? A job box? Or a full size shipping container. Op you need to be more specific.

[denrep]

If the doors look too fortified it might become an attraction.
Maybe some mechanism on the inside, that was pinned/set/tightened through an inconspicuous access?

[wagin]

Do you all realize you are adding to a design to smuggle "something" illegal into the country? ...Suspending a hidden SS compartment inside of a 6" sq tube...Really?

[123weld]

12345677... , your story reminds me of a story about a armored tractor trailer rig that that happened to in the 90's in bay area calif. they cut into the roof while the truck was enroute, and drivers claimed the ynever heard or knew anything till the got to there destination. they never caught the guy(s) who got away w/ over 2 million. Doc, 8 hundred is more than i can pay for a padlock, but i could arrange for a permanent standing puddle of water in front of the elect outlet to help matters,lol. labparmour, i like you idea of what you say about side bolts like a safe. i saw just that once in port of oakland. the guys mofied containers, and it was there own design. he only let me have a brief look, then shut the door. it was trick setup, basically one piece rect tube lever. it had four or six horiz rods that were hinged/linkaged off the vert lever. all this was attached to inside of the two doors. it appearedd simple, but i'm sure it was finely tuned for fulcrom, gravity, etc. i can remeber how it was accessed from outside, but it was the nicest setup by far i ever saw. i searched the web for it , but couldn't find anything about it. these guys also were building a a 20 footer into a hearing test center for divers who work on the bay bridge in sf they claimed. the 20 footer would stay under water permanntly, and the divers swim into it. i'll later do what denrep says, i'll probally make a couple drop rods w/ my own custom left hand thread or something on the end, and i'll machine the mating thread on a rod that i can stick through a small hole to slide drop rods out of insdie door bushings. but thats later. i'm already getting sick of the lock box project. wagin, tell me more about it, i'm not doubting you, i 'm curious to hear more.. its borderline legal/illegal to protect yourself or your property.

[123weld]

bent, and whomever else, i'm having trouble brazing the carnbide. i'm using bronze w/ some granular flux. i grind the scale off the stainless, i struggle to get the first piece brazed on the .5 inch thick ss, then the remainig pieces are overwhelmed by the black crusty glazed like stuff that flowed out from the first piece, and cant get the remaining pieces braze on due tot he pollution/contamination. i need to stop, grind off the black crap, and start over on the second, and so on. i need suggestions on that please. its very hard to get/maintain a puddle or shinney wet ss to dip my filler stick into along side the carbide on the .5". the puddle wants to erode and deform, its very difficult. its easier when i practiced on .187", much easier to control it. but i need the carbide on the .5", very close together to eachother. any hints or ideas?

[Stick-man]

WOW! Do realize, that if someone REALLY wants in, they WILL get in. Once you realize that, and you accept it, there are easier ways to lock that thing, so it's difficult to get into.

If you're interested, please PM me your email and I will try to find pics of how I do these.

[123weld]

I'd feel guilty keeping it from the others in email, I plead,beg, ask, that you please share you pics/method here in the thread, so we can all see. I'm sure by the time you post it, i will have met w/ reality, and successfully gone through the transition period of accepting what you said