Is a spool gun really needed?

[Susquatch]

Hi, I have a Lincoln Easyweld MIG 180. My user manual recommends a spool gun to use aluminum wire. It says that's because the wire might crumple in the feed mechanism. But it doesn't say it WILL.

If I keep my feed cable to the torch handle straight, I'm guessing it will feed ok. If so, a spool gun would be a waste as I rarely weld aluminum.

Is there a reason to be less optimistic? Eg, does a spool gun have slower feed rates?

Any thoughts?

[rahtreelimbs]

I believe some here have gone without a spool gun. IIRC a Teflon liner is recommended and I thought I read that 5356 wire is a bit stiffer than 4043 so it runs better. Someone will chime in and confirm this.

[DSW]

No to feed alum, you want the feed rate to be faster, often more than twice as fast as feeding steel wire.

Can it be done...yes. Does it work well... depends, but usually not. You need a very short mig lead. Often it's shortened up to about 6' or so. You need a teflon liner installed in the lead as well. The lead needs to be kept as straight as possible for things to feed right ( some recommend taping a broom stick to the gun lead to make sure it stays straight) , and the wire type and size makes a huge difference in whether you are successful or not. Soft, small diameter wires birds nest in an instant. Larger, stiffer wires work better. Here's the down side though, larger stiffer wires need more power than many small machines can put out, meaning that you may be stuck using the wires that want to birds nest.


Many people have found trying to weld alum with the stock mig gun whip to be an effort in futility. They will spend a lot of time and effort as well as money trying to save a few bucks rather than buy a spoolgun.

Keep in mind your machine is borderline at best for alum. Alum is a great heat sink and needs more power than steel. A 180 amp class mig will need to be maxed out in voltage and wire speed to weld 1/8" alum. Anything thicker and you won't get good welds.

[Poptm]

The spool gun for that welder (and spool guns for other welders) have the spool of wire right on the gun so the distance the wire has to be pushed is very short. That prevents it from kinking. The Magnum 100L gun on your welder (10 ft cable, if I am not mistaken) would have to push that aluminum wire 10 ft which isn't gonna work too good. There is space between the wire and the liner (liner in the gun cable) and the wire is soft and it will kink even if you keep that gun cable completely straight. I have a doubt you can actually keep the cable completely straight. Give it a try and see what happens. If it wasn't a problem they would be able to sell spool guns.

[wb4rt]

I've tried MIG aluminum without a spool gun and it was very frustrating.

I have a spool gun and the limited times I have used it was still disappointing, so don't think buying a spool gun will solve your problem instantly. It still will take a lot of practice to make acceptable aluminum welds.

Good luck. You can do it, but aluminum is just different from steel and you have to learn how to weld it moving very quickly.

[Susquatch]

I believe some here have gone without a spool gun. IIRC a Teflon liner is recommended and I thought I read that 5356 wire is a bit stiffer than 4043 so it runs better. Someone will chime in and confirm this.

I may try the 5356 wire some day, but based on the other comments, I think I'll just wait till i find a good deal on a spool gun. The need to get a teflon liner alone undermines the benefits of going without.

Thx

[Susquatch]

No to feed alum, you want the feed rate to be faster, often more than twice as fast as feeding steel wire.

Can it be done...yes. Does it work well... depends, but usually not. You need a very short mig lead. Often it's shortened up to about 6' or so. You need a teflon liner installed in the lead as well. The lead needs to be kept as straight as possible for things to feed right ( some recommend taping a broom stick to the gun lead to make sure it stays straight) , and the wire type and size makes a huge difference in whether you are successful or not. Soft, small diameter wires birds nest in an instant. Larger, stiffer wires work better. Here's the down side though, larger stiffer wires need more power than many small machines can put out, meaning that you may be stuck using the wires that want to birds nest.


Many people have found trying to weld alum with the stock mig gun whip to be an effort in futility. They will spend a lot of time and effort as well as money trying to save a few bucks rather than buy a spoolgun.

Keep in mind your machine is borderline at best for alum. Alum is a great heat sink and needs more power than steel. A 180 amp class mig will need to be maxed out in voltage and wire speed to weld 1/8" alum. Anything thicker and you won't get good welds.

Thanks for the lessons:
Al takes a higher feed rate
Al is borderline on my machine
Spool gun is prolly better.

Assuming I ever want to try, I'll just wait till I can find a good deal on a spool gun. Thanks, for saving me some trouble.

I assume you meant Amps, not voltage

Cheers

[Susquatch]

Thanks, as replied to others with similar advice, I'll just wait till I find a good deal on a spool gun.

[Susquatch]

I've tried MIG aluminum without a spool gun and it was very frustrating.

I have a spool gun and the limited times I have used it was still disappointing, so don't think buying a spool gun will solve your problem instantly. It still will take a lot of practice to make acceptable aluminum welds.

Good luck. You can do it, but aluminum is just different from steel and you have to learn how to weld it moving very quickly.

Yes, I have a good inkling of the differences. I have never been able to weld aluminum with my arc welder. I just get gobs of aluminum on the ground. I was hoping a wire welder would make it a bit easier.

I am old and shaky. My eyes are not the best anymore either. So lots running against me.

I'd like to give it a go, but it seems silly to invest in a spool gun if I won't end up being able to actually use it.

Insert big sigh here....

[DSW]

I assume you meant Amps, not voltage

Actually mig is a Constant Voltage process. Your "heat" setting adjusts your voltage, not your amperage. Amperage with mig isn't constant. Your amperage is controlled by wire speed, stick out etc, and varies as you weld.

Small mig welders are listed by "amps" as a convenient ( if inaccurate) way for manufacturers to compare machine X vs machine Y. As soon as you hit industrial grade mig power sources, you'll never see any "amperage" given. All they tell you are the voltage range on the machine, and if you look up settings for wire sizes and types, they are are listed in volts.

[Susquatch]

Actually mig is a Constant Voltage process. Your "heat" setting adjusts your voltage, not your amperage. Amperage with mig isn't constant. Your amperage is controlled by wire speed, stick out etc, and varies as you weld.

Once again I learn something! You are awesome!

I don't quite understand how constant voltage could work, but at least I know my assumption was wrong so I can now take the time to learn and perhaps even understand.

Cheers!

[DSW]

Stick / tig are Constant Current processes. You set your amperage and voltage varies based on arc length.




These concepts are a bit advanced, but allow the welder to have more control over the weld process. In mig, especially with machines with fixed taps ( dial you turn from say 1 to 6) you can get "in between" settings by adjusting how far away you hold the gun while welding. This can be helpful when say welding thin sheet metal and setting 3 is too hot, but setting 2 is too cold. If your usual stick out is say 3/8" from the work, moving in to 1/4" will make the weld a bit "hotter" so maybe you can get Tap 2 to work. If you increase the stick out to say 1/2" the machine will weld "colder" so that might work on say tap 3. Another place this can be helpful is where your joint isn't even. Say the gap closes down to nothing or opens up to 3/16" wide. If you push in and decrease the stick out when the gap tightens up, it will act like you turned up the machine slightly and allow you to burn in better. If the gap opens up, backing off some will cool the puddle and help you fill better without blowing holes.

All of this 1st assumes the welder has good control of all the variables. I often see new students who don't realize that they are changing their stick out as they weld. You see it most either when welding round objects, or when welding vertical. With vertical, many times students want to hold their hand "still" and roll their wrist as they move up the joint. That means the stick out is long as they point the gun down, then it shortens up as they get the gun close to parallel with the material, then the stick out lengthens again as they continue to rotate upwards.

What you want to do is set your hands so that the gun angle ( and stick out) remains constant, and move your hands up consistently. It is possible to roll your hands and get good welds, but if that is the case, you have to move the gun in and out as you do so to maintain the same consistent stick out. You also have to make other adjustments to deal with the gun angle changing, but stick out is usually the biggest issue when this happens.

This combined with other "tricks" like varying travel speed to heat/cool the puddle, pushing vs pulling when doing solid wire ( we teach all our students to push vs pull as it's easier to later get them to drag vs having to "reteach" them to push) all are tools in the welders tool box and are often what separates those who can weld from those who just squirt metal in the general direction of the joint.