SS Exhaust pipe weld settings?

[ironmangq]

stainless likes to be welded fast, get in start your puddle and get out, too much heat and you get gray brittle welds. Use a big gas cup/gas lens. Your gas coverage has to be enough to not only cover your weld but also the HAZ and the end of your electrode-(not critical but important) Too high of a gas flow will cause turbulence around your weld and pull outside air into the shielded area which will make you think you dont have enough shielding- it can get confusing, more is not always better.
Set your machine so you are at the proper amperage with your pedal about half way down (If you want 50 amps set your machine to 100 and use the pedal) If you set your machine to 50 you will take forever to get the puddle started and just give the weld more time to react with any oxygen

[4sfed]

Correct me if I'm wrong,but can't he use Solar flux on the inside of that and eliminate the purge?

It's an exhaust, not inlet tube, so any debris that falls off the inside isn't gonna break anything?

No?

Yes . . . with TIG or OxyAcetylene.

[con_fuse9]

For backpurge, calculate the volume your going to need and how long it will take to flow and then pre-flow 6x that. Argon is heavier than air so you will want a controlled leak on the high side of the pipe (at least before you get going) to let the air out. I usually purge at 15-20 cfh and then turn it down to 5cfh while welding (maybe 10 depending on how good I feel the dam is).

308L is the more common filler for 304 stainless. I don't know how 316 will look. For "16 gauge' stainless tubing, I normally have the machine set for 42 Amps and run the pedal about 80%. I run it pretty fast, no pulsing, just a slight pause. I special ordered .035 filler. You didn't say what material you are running but 304 is the cheapest, non-magnetic stainless and probably the best for exhaust pipe (but marginal for headers). I assume you have 304.

With a proper purge, you have a bit more flexibility on how much heat the material will take before it turns gray. I found my coloration vastly improved with a good purge.

From your pictures, one issue you will run into is that the tubing will get too hot and the glue on tapes will get way too soft. Aluminum tape (what is used in the USA on ducting) works two way. One it sticks, but as the glue melts, the shape still hangs on.

[SundownIII]

I think the point all posters are missing is the fact that the OP has never learned to TIG WELD.

Where are the coupons showing he's learned puddle control, torch movement, rod feeding, etc, etc.

What we have here is the typical newcomer who thinks all he needs to do is go out and buy a tig welder and he's instantly a "tig welder".

Anyone who thinks his gas setup is "adequate" for purging hasn't done much SS work. Flowing gas thru an unrestricted hose is not an acceptable solution. Absolutely no way to gauge his flow to the part or the torch. Not only is the OP trying to do a somewhat complex fabrication, he's trying to do it with no experience and ON THE CHEAP. A dual flowmeter, a dual setup as another poster showed, or two separate regulator/flowmeters is the only real way to set up a proper purge. Any other BS (like the OP posted) are just pissing in the wind. Given the OP's setup, he'd be better off going with Solar Flux B.

The OP is obviously "cooking his welds" by overheating them and burning off the chromium in the base metal and filler. Those beads will be no more "rust resistant" than if they'd been done with mild steel.

It's one thing to give a poster "pointers" to advance their basic knowledge, but trying to teach someone the basics of tig on a message board just isn't going to work. Just in this one thread, there's been as much BS advice put out as there has been good advice.

Going back and reading the OP's previous posts, he's tried aluminum (unsuccessfully) before he moved to SS. Nowhere in any of his posts have I seen where he has put in the necessary "hood time" to be taking on a somewhat complex SS task.

Questions like how do I hold my work in place and how do I attach my work lead show me that the OP has not put forth the effort to understand the task at hand.

I don't think anyone's ever "learned to tig weld" by asking questions on a message board. You need to study the processes, watch as many video's as possible (something that just wasn't available a few years ago) and spending as much time as necessary in developing the motor skills necessary for tig welding.

I'd just like to ask the OP one question. How many bottles/cu. ft. of argon have you used in developing your tig proficiency?

[sn0border88]

Don't take me too seriously

ER70S-6 Is Electrode ROLL 70S-6

Tig filler is E70S-6

Look it up
David

Edit, I just went to ESAB and Lincoln and they list tig wire as ER..........

Up for debate in another thread.

Its not really an issue for debate... any reference will explain the designations in the same manner.

ER stands for electrode rod and is used for both TIG and MIG filler material. In this case "Rod" is indicated that the electrode is solid, not that it comes in straight cut lengths.
The E designation can refer to SMAW electrodes, as well as cored wires (self-shield/dual-shield). The difference being that cored wires will have a T after the first two numbers identifying it as a tubular electrode. (E70T-X)

That may sounds a little unnatural at first, but that's just the way things are according to the AWS.

[Drf255]

I think the point all posters are missing is the fact that the OP has never learned to TIG WELD

I don't think anyone's ever "learned to tig weld" by asking questions on a message board. You need to study the processes, watch as many video's as possible (something that just wasn't available a few years ago) and spending as much time as necessary in developing the motor skills necessary for tig welding.

The guy's trying to learn. Knocking the guy for asking questions is just not right. In addition to watching videos and hood time, questions on this message board have helped me tremendously.

No dumb questions, just dumb answers.

So to the OP,

Try Solar Flux on the inside of the joint and forget the purge. You will end up with a black coating on the inside of the joint that will be of no consequence because if it chips off, it will go out the exhaust. People worry more about the inside bead with intakes. If small metal chips hit a turbo blade, it's thousands down the drain. This will allow you to figure out any gas flow issues to the torch as well. You may be getting less with that T setup.

[SundownIII]

Drf,

I put you in the same category as the OP.

Let's see. Three different tig machines in less than 7 mos. Still looking for that "silver bullet" to make up for your lack of experience in the tig process.

You are a prime example of a poster who makes it difficult for a new guy to improve a particular aspect of his tig welding. You lack experience yourself so you simply repeat things you've read on a message board, not knowing if they're right or wrong. How much Solar Flux B have you used in the last 7 mos? What is your "first hand" experience with setting up a SS purge?

Tig welding, as with all welding processes, is a "building block process". If you don't understand/master the basics, you'll never be good at the process no matter how much guidance you get. The problem with just "asking questions" on a message board is that you get as much BS advice (from guys like you with little to no experience) who just feel the need to interject their little tidbit that they "heard". In this thread alone, the OP got as much bad advice as he got good advice. How's a newbie to know the difference?

In the OP's photos I see a total lack of puddle control (heat), timing, filler feeding, etc, etc. Until the OP masters the BASICS, he doesn't need to move on to SS and backgassing, etc.

There's no way to "SPOON FEED" a beginner what he needs to know about tig welding.

[Drf255]

Drf,

I put you in the same category as the OP.

Let's see. Three different tig machines in less than 7 mos. Still looking for that "silver bullet" to make up for your lack of experience in the tig process.

SundownIII

Lets see some pics of YOUR WORK. Travis called you out. So where is it?

I have never seen you reply with anything but negative responses. If you just want to tell everyone how much they suck, don"t reply.

You HELP NOONE by telling them they don't know what theyre doing. If we knew everything, we wouldnt be asking questions on a forum. If someone who hasnt welded for as many years as you (reportedly) have and has a good idea, why is his any less better than yours.

Youre the type of guy that makes people afraid to post questions we all can learn from. I'm in my trade for 19 years and I still learn something everyday from people less experienced than me. I don't tell them how bad they are either.

I've posted my learning pictures, the almost good and the bad. What have you shown us? How about a little DEMO? Stick 2 pieces of SS pipe together for the OP and show him the right way.

I'm beginning to think those who accuse you of being a cranky, old armchair welder are right. Didn't your mother teach you to say nothing if you have nothing good to say? Were you at a welding class that day?

LETS SEE YOUR PROOF! Then I'll shut up.

[SundownIII]

Drf,

I don't post a lot of photos of my "work" because I don't see where that would help anyone at all. There are thousands of photos of great work on the boards, but what does that accomplish other than showing another good/great weld.

Maybe you should be more concerned about what I do put up (explanations) rather than being so concerned with what I don't post. If you, or anyone else has a problem with the guidance I do provide, then I would more than welcome your comments. If you think I give "bad advice" then challenge it.

I have nothing "to prove" to any member on this board. I am not looking for any customers on this board. I don't advertise locally. Don't have to. My work is all over the local area. My shop is open to anyone who needs work done and I'm more than happy to demonstrate/show them what I can do.

There are a lot of good posters/welders who do post up photos of their work. If that's what they wish to do, that's great. I'm not one who chooses to do that. Much of the work I've done over the last several years is "repair". Don't think many of my customers would be too happy about me showing off their mistakes. In fact, the objective is complete a repair so that no one even knows something ever happened.

In the case of this thread, you and the OP are a lot alike. You want someone to tell you how to drive a car into the third turn at Daytona at 180 MPH, but haven't gotten your learner's permit yet. I've been tig welding for more years than you've been on this planet, and frankly, I don't know where to begin to help the OP. Until he gets the basics down, all he's doing is ruining a bunch of SS.

In this thread alone the OP has gotten the whole gambit of "advice". One poster says he's running too hot. Another poster says crank the amps up and move faster. One says his filler is too big. Another says it's just fine. The list just goes on and on.

Yes, there are several things I could "recommend" to the OP with regard to amps, tungsten size, cup, gas lens, pulsing, etc, etc. but until he learns to read the puddle, consistently add filler, and move the puddle, it won't help a bit. Without having the basics down pat, moving to a fabrication such as this is fruitless. The added complexity of a circumference weld with a constantly changing torch angle to work will be near impossible.

[Jay O]

Drf255,

SDIII is not wrong in his post. TheMeatHead didn't qualify himself/skills so there is a lot of unkowns about him. Alot of the new guy come on here and want to learn how to tig and the first type of projects they want to tackle are exhaust/manifolds. They seem unwilling to set some practice time (100hrs) just to master the basics. This welding forum should be just one of the places someone can use as reference and should be willing to look and learn outside of this forum.

There is one poster here (turbocad6) that wanted to build his own ss manifolds and was all gung-ho when first starting out. If you find his post, his manifolds took more then a year in the making but he finally built them and he still has a way to go to master ss.

I found this forum 6-7 years ago and in researching it helped me decide to change careers. Went through the local CC welding program and had 3 yrs out in the field before I truley started to contribute to this forum.

SDIII maybe a little old and a little cranky and even if he was doing this from an armchair his info is correct. It just gets old when the new kid want the answers that will take him across the finish line but not want to do the work inbetween.

[Drf255]

Drf,

I don't post a lot of photos of my "work" because I don't see where that would help anyone at all. There are thousands of photos of great work on the boards, but what does that accomplish other than showing another good/great weld.

Maybe you should be more concerned about what I do put up (explanations) rather than being so concerned with what I don't post. If you, or anyone else has a problem with the guidance I do provide, then I would more than welcome your comments. If you think I give "bad advice" then challenge it.

I have nothing "to prove" to any member on this board. I am not looking for any customers on this board. I don't advertise locally. Don't have to. My work is all over the local area. My shop is open to anyone who needs work done and I'm more than happy to demonstrate/show them what I can do.

There are a lot of good posters/welders who do post up photos of their work. If that's what they wish to do, that's great. I'm not one who chooses to do that. Much of the work I've done over the last several years is "repair". Don't think many of my customers would be too happy about me showing off their mistakes. In fact, the objective is complete a repair so that no one even knows something ever happened.

In the case of this thread, you and the OP are a lot alike. You want someone to tell you how to drive a car into the third turn at Daytona at 180 MPH, but haven't gotten your learner's permit yet. I've been tig welding for more years than you've been on this planet, and frankly, I don't know where to begin to help the OP. Until he gets the basics down, all he's doing is ruining a bunch of SS.

In this thread alone the OP has gotten the whole gambit of "advice". One poster says he's running too hot. Another poster says crank the amps up and move faster. One says his filler is too big. Another says it's just fine. The list just goes on and on.

Yes, there are several things I could "recommend" to the OP with regard to amps, tungsten size, cup, gas lens, pulsing, etc, etc. but until he learns to read the puddle, consistently add filler, and move the puddle, it won't help a bit. Without having the basics down pat, moving to a fabrication such as this is fruitless. The added complexity of a circumference weld with a constantly changing torch angle to work will be near impossible.

A picture paints a thousand words. Post some informative pictures to explain THIS particular problem to the OP. Why not? How bout ONE photo?

Drf255,

SDIII is not wrong in his post. TheMeatHead didn't qualify himself/skills so there is a lot of unkowns about him. Alot of the new guy come on here and want to learn how to tig and the first type of projects they want to tackle are exhaust/manifolds. They seem unwilling to set some practice time (100hrs) just to master the basics. This welding forum should be just one of the places someone can use as reference and should be willing to look and learn outside of this forum.

There is one poster here (turbocad6) that wanted to build his own ss manifolds and was all gung-ho when first starting out. If you find his post, his manifolds took more then a year in the making but he finally built them and he still has a way to go to master ss.

I found this forum 6-7 years ago and in researching it helped me decide to change careers. Went through the local CC welding program and had 3 yrs out in the field before I truley started to contribute to this forum.

SDIII maybe a little old and a little cranky and even if he was doing this from an armchair his info is correct. It just gets old when the new kid want the answers that will take him across the finish line but not want to do the work inbetween.

Yeah,
I did follow that thread. I watched as he improved. So the guy asked questions and learned. I actually met the guy, I cut him a stump and gave it to him to set his anvil on. Great guy.

I don't think anyone with a brain thinks they're gonna become a master welder by reading a forum, but the CONSTRUCTIVE responses help us all learn. I already know I'm not a great tig welder, but I got a hell of alot better from this forum.

So what are hobby guys better off doing, never buying a machine and trying? Give these guys credit for having some balls for diving in. And if someone learns correct info they learned on the forum from a pro's reply, they can't repeat it?

I'm done with this.

[yorkiepap]

Hey Drf,
Why you getting so pushed out of place because of a bit of criticism. The problem 95% of the newbies to TIG have is because they think they can simply buy a TIG welder, get a bottle of gas & some tungstens, & start putting together a project blindly & think they can get those sought-after "stack-o-dimes". No experience, no practice, want to do SS or alum. to start, which is the totally opposite procedure to begin to learn, & then they come to the forums & ask why they're having so many issues. Duuuuuuhhhhhh!

Their is a sound, proven, flawless solution that works EVERY TIME....... START WITH CLEAN, BARE STEEL!!!!!!! NOT SS OR ALUM. Learn the basic steps & joint configurations FIRST!!!!! You will get NOWHERE till you have a minimum of 200-400 hrs PRACTICE on reg. steel. It's the ONLY way to learn the proper "techniques" of TIG & the fluid consistency needed to achieve GOOD TIG WELDS that are aesthetically pleasing. WTF is the problem starting from STEP 1 to get to STEP 2 ???..........>>>>>.

SDIII provided an honest evaluation & his opinion & sure read to be a sound response as far as I could see. Sure been quite a few whiny, crying, waa-waa's here lately who aren't going to find mama's nipple to pacify them. ALL newbies/beginners/hobby-farts gotta start to UNDERSTAND WHAT IS INVOLVED!!!!!! That's why there are vo-tech & college classes to provide the data/practice to learn the fundamentals. If you're not going to invest the time to learn by practice, starting with SIMPLE welds/techniques, & doing some homework to get a grasp on the myriad applications of TIG, the end result will simply be another garage "HACK" with results as posted........"Garbage in.....Garbage out"............ And, I really don't give a rats' a$$ whether any of you like it or not. The only person you have to satisfy is YOU..............YOU choose your own LEVEL of satisfaction.

Denny

[BlueArc]

Hey Drf,
Why you getting so pushed out of place because of a bit of criticism.

I don't blame the guy for getting a little bent out of shape. No reason to get **** on just for trying to help.

Sure, we'd all like everyone here to start the same way and learn the right way from the bottom up. The fact of the matter is that not everyone is the same, with the same resources, time, and opportunities to learn it by the book. A lot of guys are running around this site with a chip on their shoulder lately, and it's honestly a drag on the place.

[Drf255]

SundownIII
Senior Member
Join Date
Mar 2007
Location
Deltaville, VA
Posts
2,069
Millermatic 210 vs Millermatic 251
Looking for advice/recommendations from individuals who have used both machines.

I have gone over the specs in great detail and think I understand the higher duty cycle, ability to use larger spools, etc. I particularly like the fact that the 251 comes equipped with the digital meters.

What I'm looking for are comments from people who have actually used both machines. In my business we have a saying that "there's no substitute for local knowledge".

Power supply is not an issue. Have 200A, single phase available in the shop.

Currently am using a Syncrowave 250 w/cooler (1996 Vintage), a Hobart 187 Mig (Great little machine), an older Linde AC buzzbox, and Harris O/A.

Any comments/discussion would be appreciated.

SundownIII

SDIII from 4 yrs ago on the Miller Forum. Sounds like a guy with 25 years experience, no? Especially the Duty Cycle part.

Now rant is over. Will post no more on this subject. A little tough to take criticism from this guy. Money talks....BS....

[rode2rouen]

Burns Stainless had a very good series of articles about exhaust system work in their monthly newsletter.
Here's a link to their newsletter archive...the exhaust articles start in June '09.

http://www.burnsstainless.com/Newsle...erarchive.html



Rex

[Garauld]

Ya gotta practice to be good - in anything. When I first got my tig machine, I went down to the junk yard a number of times and bought cutoff scraps, took them home and just laid down beads - the first ones were of course, junk, but they got better....

[tig_21]

from what I've seen only practice will make you better. People will tell you how to weld one way but that may not work for the newbie. I remember when I first started tig welding and a past student told me I wasn't holding the torch right....why does that matter?....in the end, my welds looked better and were stronger than his so he didn't say anything after that. IMO if you are welding exhausts you don't need complete penetration. I've noticed that when I weld stainless pipe the more penetration I get the nastier grey it looks. Also, the hotter the material gets the more it turns grey which is what I think your problem is. the pipe i welded here is .056" i kept the heat low (about 50A) and moved at a slightly quicker pace than mild steel. stainless is "watery" so it can get out of control very easily. practice practice practice. Try more flat positions before you try welding pipe. I've seen welding instructors that weren't even that great at welding so don't feel bad. sorry kinda a bad picture but you can see the color isn't grey or nasty which is what you want. The pipe is for a turbo kit. It runs about 45 lbs of boost through it and holds just fine. (for a diesel turbo kit to be exact thats why the boost pressure is so high)

[Donoharm]

The guy's trying to learn. Knocking the guy for asking questions is just not right.

he's obviously not trying to learn, you don't learn the alfabet starting with the letter Z, he just want's to weld that exhaust, I asked him if he gets money for it and got no answer...

Imagine you're a piano player and some guy buys a knock off piano(china made) then after 2-3 hours of "music" goes to a pianists forum asking why his "concert" sounds like crap

there is no advice one can give to someone like that, maybe a few pointers (that wont help much anyways)

Happy new year to all !!!

[zapster]

There is a reason I don't comment in posts like this anymore..

...zap!

[MikeGyver]

There is a reason I don't comment in posts like this anymore..

...zap!

So what's the reason you just did?

[DSW]

So what's the reason you just did?

To make sure everyone knows the Ref is still there and watching everyone... So play nice.

[wagin]

Hey Guys,

I only have the standard single regulator and flow meter that came with the EverLast PowerTig 225LX machine. The T-Fitting you see is after the flowmeter.

I used aluminum tape on the pipe inlet with small hole for the argon-purge tube, then on the outlet I use aluminum tape with a small slit for the argon to exit. But, my grounding clamp does not fit around 2-inch pipe . So when you're back purging stainless steel pipe like this, how do you mount your grounding clamps?

I've seen in a video where some guys stick a rag in the pipe inlet that can fit the argon-purge tube and grounding clamp, is this how most of you do it too?

In the meantime, I'm trying your suggestions!

You Split the gas hose, 'teed off" after the flow meter? I would think that's causing your crappy welds. The flow meter outputs the set rate but pressure follows the path of least Resistance, the purge line is steeling your gas.