Welding baffles in oil pan

[Kelvin]

I'm leaning towards brazing or riveting and brazing.

Personally, I wouldn't like the idea of those little tiny "swage heads" or whatever they're called that break off and remain inside the rivets.

999 times out of 1000 they would stay "captured" inside the pop rivets, and even if they got out, would probably drop to the bottom of the pan ... but ... that's just the kind of irrational stupid nagging doubt that can invade my headspace, which is the last thing I want to be thinking about when competing.

Also not sure what benefit rivets offer over brazing or tack welding alone, if you know how to braze or weld.

For me, the choice would be between pop rivets alone (so you don't have to worry about the paint coming off and fouling things) or welding/brazing alone. K.I.S.S.

[jwmelvin]

Personally, I wouldn't like the idea of those little tiny "swage heads" or whatever they're called that break off and remain inside the rivets.
. . .
Also not sure what benefit they offer over brazing or tack welding alone, if you know how to braze or weld.

I was thinking the braze metal would lock the mandrel into the rivet, but I can see your point. Will likely braze. I'll post pictures once I do it.

[jwmelvin]

Hm, that was a bit of a ****show. I first put a bung in for a temp sensor. I welded it on the inside and then tried to braze a fillet on the outside using Al-bronze. It was challenging for my lack of skills. I think I just needed more heat as when I started using that, I got it to wet out better.

For the baffles, I tacked a couple of spots and then tried to braze. The Al-bronze still gave me trouble wetting out. I had better success with Si-bronze. But then I tried welding some and it was much easier for me. So I have a mix of welder and brazed joints. Ugly ones. I think it’s sufficiently sting though and does not appear to have meaningfully distorted.

Front right is Al-bronze, back left is Si-bronze, front left is welded, and back right is a combo of welding and Si-bronze.



And the outside of the bung:


The braze had gunk floating in the puddle, especially the Al-braze. I didn’t notice as many issues when welding with ER70S6. Mostly used 50 amps, as the pan is 0.050” thick. Was backed off the pedal when brazing.

I need practice, but this was a good learning experience.

[Kelvin]

That ought to work, though if it were me, I'd probably try to get the toes to wet out a little better, especially at bottom right of first pic. Looks like you might have a big droplet of bronze hanging out in mid-air there. Remember the bronze follows the heat, so melt the blob of bronze, then try to move the molten puddle toward the toes. Wailing on it often helps, since bronze is so thermally conductive and wicks away the heat so fast...

FWIW, I seem to get better results using O/A torch with borax flux, rather than TIG torch with argon, for brazing. Seems like it's a little easier, at least for me, to feather the heat...YMMV

Some welders seem to scoff at brazing, but I use it a lot. For many applications, it has several advantages over welding. Learn it well, and it'll be an important tool in your kit.

[jwmelvin]

if it were me, I'd probably try to get the toes to wet in a little better, especially at bottom right of first pic.

I agree. That corner was super frustrating and is what made me give up on the aluminum bronze. I wish I understood the stuff better. The silicon bronze was so much easier to get to wet out.

[Insaneride]

I see you didnt waste any time. Good for you.

Heres how I would do it using steel welding rod for rivets. Where the red line is, drill thru baffle flanges. Set in oil pan and clamp. Center punch oil pan using baffle holes to locate. After oil pan is drilled re-insert baffle and welding rod (rivet) clamp and TIG weld rod to baffle. Repeat TIG'n on outside of pan. No welding to the inside of pan needed and the welding rod would act as filler and rivet. In the pic I showed one hole per flange but two holes per flange would work.

By the way, nice job on the baffle.

[outdoort]

Never heard of doing baffles in a oil pan, but reminds me that I need to sand blast and hammer out a bashed in oil pan for my isuzu 4bd1t engine Im going to be swaping into my fzj 80 landcruiser. Ur welds could def improve, but thanks for posting. As long as they are bonded to the metal and nothing is going to pop loose in the future (or create a leak due to burn through of the base metal), then you should be fine for this application. The less welding the better on something like this. As was said before, its not holding the world.