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Thread: Welding baffles in oil pan

  1. #1
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    Welding baffles in oil pan

    Im welding some steel baffles in my steel oil pan. I will be using TIG. I have 3/32 ER70S6 or 1/16 ER309L.

    I will sand the paint off the surfaces where I will weld, but they are ledges in the pan and I cant easily clean the paint off the underside. That seems like it will be a problem.

    Any advice on properly prepping and on which filler to use? (I also have some 0.030 ER70S6 MIG wire I could twist into a filler, or I could buy some 1/16 if necessary.)

    Here is a picture of the baffles set in place:


    Here is the pan without the baffles:

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    You are asking for trouble, that "paint" is actually a teflon like product, once you disturb the bond it will continue to come off plugging the oil pick up and possibly frying the engine. I saw a guy put some sort of desludger in his 7.3 POWERSTROKE, it delaminated the coating and plugged the oil pickup, the ONLY thing that saved the motor was the fact that it needed low pressure oil to feed the high pressure pump, so it wouldn't start after a short time, but they replaced it anyway for other reasons.
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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Ive never heard of an issue with people doing this to Honda pans. Its a pretty common procedure from what I gather.

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by jwmelvin View Post
    I’ve never heard of an issue with people doing this to Honda pans. It’s a pretty common procedure from what I gather.
    Why not just tack it (or braze it) in a half a dozen places other than in the corners where it's hard to remove the paint? It's not like it needs to hold up the world.
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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    Why not just tack it (or braze it) in a half a dozen places other than in the corners where it's hard to remove the paint? It's not like it needs to hold up the world.
    Exactly.

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    Why not just tack it (or braze it) in a half a dozen places other than in the corners where it's hard to remove the paint? It's not like it needs to hold up the world.
    I considered that. I do know a person who had brazed baffles let go on track with catastrophic results. Is that a condemnation of all brazed baffles? Not necessarily, but it is something.

    Either way there would be paint on the backside of the metal Im attaching to. If thats not such a big concern, I guess Im okay.

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Just wondering,, why welding a baffle in tank????
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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by irish View Post
    Just wondering,, why welding a baffle in tank????
    It helps control the oil sloshing around around turns. This car is used with track-only tires for driving on racing circuits.

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by jwmelvin View Post
    It helps control the oil sloshing around around turns. This car is used with track-only tires for driving on racing circuits.
    why dont you just sand or bead blast the entire inside of the pan to eliminate all the hassles and possibility of paint or coating coming undone while under use and clogging screens or oil passages?

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbytime View Post
    why dont you just sand or bead blast the entire inside of the pan to eliminate all the hassles and possibility of paint or coating coming undone while under use and clogging screens or oil passages?
    That's a good idea but the problem is the shelves in the pan, which will prevent cleaning or painting some areas, unless stripping by a chemical process and painting by dipping. I'm going to say this project hasn't risen to that level.

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by jwmelvin View Post
    I do know a person who had brazed baffles let go on track with catastrophic results.
    That must have been some HEAVY (like a ton per gallon) and/or HOT (like 1400F) oil ... and/or some TIGHT (like 1000-G) turns!

    ...either that, or a botched braze job.

    Why do you need to weld in the corners in the first place? The more you weld on this thing, the more it's going to distort.
    Last edited by Kelvin; 04-19-2018 at 10:17 AM.

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Use the drain plug to hold the baffles in place or drill a new hole to attach the baffles. Seems like a PITA to try to weld or braze with coating.

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    Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    That must have been some HEAVY (like a ton per gallon) and/or HOT (like 1400F) oil ... and/or some TIGHT (like 1000-G) turns!

    ...either that, or a botched braze job.

    Why do you need to weld in the corners in the first place? The more you weld on this thing, the more it's going to distort.
    These were my thoughts too; brazing seems pretty good for this. I may still do it. I have Si-Bronze and Al-Bronze filler rod; which would be better (Al- rod is stronger, right?)

    I don't need to weld in the corners, I just want to secure the baffle.

    Heres a picture of where I would like to weld/braze; red shows attachment tabs to pan, which should be easy to clean, and yellow shows where I just want to prevent oil coming out, so probably brazing is good there:
    Last edited by jwmelvin; 04-19-2018 at 10:25 AM.

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Here are examples of others having done this. I was just hoping for some execution advice from people who know welding.
    Welded 1
    Welded 2
    Welded 3
    Welded 4

    Brazed 1

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by jwmelvin View Post
    That's a good idea but the problem is the shelves in the pan, which will prevent cleaning or painting some areas, unless stripping by a chemical process and painting by dipping. I'm going to say this project hasn't risen to that level.
    a good blaster will be able to get under those shelves to get most of that coating off and shouldnt take that long, and no reason to repaint, most oil pans in the last 60 years were bare steel on the inside, I have heard the idea of painting the inside of blocks so the oil flows better back down to the pan as its a more slippery surface than the bare block, but also the down side of the paint or coating coming off and causing bigger problems, Its a personal decision on that point to paint or not..same as braze or weld..

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbytime View Post
    a good blaster will be able to get under those shelves to get most of that coating off and shouldnt take that long, and no reason to repaint, most oil pans in the last 60 years were bare steel on the inside, I have heard the idea of painting the inside of blocks so the oil flows better back down to the pan as its a more slippery surface than the bare block, but also the down side of the paint or coating coming off and causing bigger problems, Its a personal decision on that point to paint or not..same as braze or weld..
    Good points thanks. I've been thinking there's little reason to repaint other than the outside of the pan. I'll think about trying to blast it.

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Pop rivets. Sorry, but welding isn't always the best answer. Just overlap the existing shelf where surfaces are flat with the new baffle.
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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Baffles are cheap insurance for an engine that is going to be raced.

    If it were me I'd get all of that coating off (either sand blast or chemical) and spot weld it in various spots.

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by Chad86tsi View Post
    Pop rivets. Sorry, but welding isn't always the best answer. Just overlap the existing shelf where surfaces are flat with the new baffle.
    I was thinking steel pop rivets after seeing the red circles where it attaches. He could weld the rivets on the outside to prevent leaks with Er70s. Dont know why he would use ER309L. Seems like 309 would brake to easy.
    Last edited by Insaneride; 04-19-2018 at 12:02 PM.

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaneride View Post
    Dont know why he would ask about ER309L. Seems like 309 would brake to easy.
    Only my own ignorance, because I have 1/6" in that material. Should I get 1/16" ER70S2/6?

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    I believe Er70 is good for 70,000 lbs/ square inch. Dont think it needs to be that strong but the 309 has more tendency to crack in my limited experience. I do think rivets would eliminate problems the pros mentioned above tho and you can still weld on the outside without the mentioned problems. You could braze with SiCu SilBronze instead of 309. The SiCu would hold up better than 309 for that application on a race car in my opinion but ER70 would my choice.


    EDIT: maybee somebody will correct my ignorance but I would just use your 0.030 ER70 if you decide to weld rivets from outside of the pan. Weld or braze would help prevent leaks at the rivets IMO.
    Last edited by Insaneride; 04-19-2018 at 12:03 PM.

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    What about just making your own oil pan with baffles built in? Or you could cut the bottom off the pan, glass bead paint off weld in baffles then weld bottom of pan back on?
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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    I've done a couple of minor oil pan repairs that held up, but never welded in any baffles. I read that the stamping process leaves oil pans with a lot of locked-in stresses that can cause problems when baffles have been added. Anyone seen this? Maybe any pan that has been on a car for a while has been thermo-cycled and vibrated enough to work out some of those locked-in stresses . . .

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    Quote Originally Posted by old jupiter View Post
    I've done a couple of minor oil pan repairs that held up, but never welded in any baffles. I read that the stamping process leaves oil pans with a lot of locked-in stresses that can cause problems when baffles have been added. Anyone seen this? Maybe any pan that has been on a car for a while has been thermo-cycled and vibrated enough to work out some of those locked-in stresses . . .
    Yeah. I have. I used to whack the bottom out of SBC pans and make them deeper. I always brazed them.Like anything else stamped, its under tension. I never bothered adding a band. I cut the pan off and made a new "box" to attach to it.

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    Re: Welding baffles in oil pan

    I asked for more details from my friend who had a failure, and it turns out it was a baffle made from 0.060" aluminum that failed in his engine. So it wasn't brazed, and seems to have failed from poor design.

    I'm leaning towards brazing or riveting and brazing.

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