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Thread: Next TIG machine and circuit breaker

  1. #26
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    Re: Next TIG machine and circuit breaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    people plug appliances and other tools into outlets that are rated for more the appliance draws, and they do it all the time. the breaker is NOT there to protect the tool, it is there to protect the wiring in the circuit so that it doesn't catch fire. You can safely run a 20 amp welder in a 50 amp circuit.
    Quote Originally Posted by jpump5 View Post
    Exactly.
    I have power tools and appliances that draw far less than 15 amps. Some of these have 16 or even 18 ga. cords.
    They are pluged into circuits with 15 or 20 amp breakers.
    We aren't talking about your cell phone charger plugged in a 20 amp plug.

    Equipment is very often directly relying on the incoming power being fused properly.

    Look at the welder spec right above. You think they gave a MAX protection amperage for no reason.

    Almost all equipment that is valuable has a maximum fused specification. It has importance.

    Being fused properly absolutely is for more than just protecting the wire.

    General wiring though you are correct and even most of your breakers in your panel and even the one that might be feeding equipment but at the equipment or feeding equipment with a maximum overcurrent rating it needs to be properly sized device protecting the circuit and best the device protecting the equipment be located right at the equipment as a fusible disconnect in most cases. Sometimes this is incorporated into the equipment itself if it is high end and expensive.

    But general lighting and receptacles yes it is a little hard to protect everything on those circuits because there is no way of knowing what will be plugged in them that is why they are all protected internally in order to be UL listed there usually has to be some overcurrent device(over temp too ??)in most things that are cord and plug connected.
    Last edited by danielplace; 08-18-2018 at 11:03 AM.

  2. #27
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    Re: Next TIG machine and circuit breaker

    You have to read all the specs in that example you provided.

    "Minimum wire 14g with a recommended max CB of 25."

    That is the minimum circuit you could run for that particular machine and it really is confusing for the general operator and most sparkies that do regular home wiring and don't deal with machines with duty cycles.

    A 50amp CB and 6g wired circuit is safe for this application.

    The machine wouldn't come with a 6-50 plug on the power cord if it wasn't.
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  3. #28
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    Re: Next TIG machine and circuit breaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    Put in 6g wire and a 50amp breaker and you'll not have to worry at all.

    I can't see the cost being that much higher over 10g and a 30amp CB.
    I agree. Doing it once is cheaper than doing it twice. #6, or even #4 will support near any welder. Breakers can be changed easily.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  4. #29
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    Re: Next TIG machine and circuit breaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    You have to read all the specs in that example you provided.

    "Minimum wire 14g with a recommended max CB of 25."

    That is the minimum circuit you could run for that particular machine and it really is confusing for the general operator and most sparkies that do regular home wiring and don't deal with machines with duty cycles.

    A 50amp CB and 6g wired circuit is safe for this application.

    The machine wouldn't come with a 6-50 plug on the power cord if it wasn't.
    I will agree as it was made so it will run on any 50 amp receptacle that is sized for the 50 amp plug that it has. Most any general 50 amp dedicated plug you would have in a prewired shop would most likely be on #6 with a 50 amp breaker feeding it. No problem there if you just need it to work surely it will do that.

    You could fuse everything 1000 times what they need and they will still work. Most things might even work better. Lol.

    I could be little wrong in this application even though if I was going to power with a plug I was installing just for this welder I believe I would fuse/protect it a little closer to what it needs when maxed out and that is why they say max recommended but surely doesn't mean you couldn't run it on a 50 amp it just doesn't offer as much protection to trip if the machine went awol.
    Would just produce the majic smoke a little thicker and a little longer. Hope it is in warranty. Lol.

    Using overcurrent protection that is closest to what is required will always be the best way to do something as far as protection goes as it is your first chance to address a issue if something is happening to allow it to draw enough to trip what it has already run on for some time.

    A fusible disconnect right at the plug or where it is hardwired that is properly fused is best.

    For a inverter run the #6's and use a 60amp feeding a 8 circuit(or more)subpanel above the outlet for the welder. Two breakers in it one for welder and another to a surge protector. Even more circuits if your original panel is getting near filled up so you have place to pull more power for future already run that far into the work area.
    Last edited by danielplace; 08-18-2018 at 02:24 PM.

  5. #30
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    Re: Next TIG machine and circuit breaker

    my 30 Amp dryer outlet seems to work just fine, unless I need to dry clothes.

  6. #31
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    Re: Next TIG machine and circuit breaker

    I also don't have much to talk about with protecting things properly.
    I have a sub panel taken out of my last place and it has all the proper sized breakers and separate outlets that are both 50 amp one for Dynasty 280 on a 40 breaker and one for Multimatic 200 on a 30 breaker and a surge protector on a 20 amp breaker but still haven't installed it in the new place and am still 2 years later running them both on the same 50 amp outlet on a 50 amp breaker.
    But yes it works just fine but I don't like it that way that is for sure. Soon. Lol.



    Quote Originally Posted by rick-l View Post
    my 30 Amp dryer outlet seems to work just fine, unless I need to dry clothes.

    That is a whole other topic.
    Not sure I should mention this as surely don't want to start a 3 page debate that it doesn't matter. Just a simple friendly FYI.

    A 3 wire dryer outlet probably ?

    A 3 wire dryer outlet is not wired correctly for a welder.
    You could never legally use a neutral as a equipment ground for a welder. That has two hots and a neutral. They were once allowed for a dryer outlet but it was never right hence the reason they are by code all done with four wires now. They needed two hots a neutral and a ground but instead they used a neutral to bond the cabinet which you don't really want to do. A welder needs two hots and a ground. If your panel feeding the dryer outlet is a main breaker panel it is less of a big deal. If your panel is fed from another means of disconnect ahead of it then the neutral used to ground a welder is more of a issue.

    Just like the breaker size. It will work but it isn't correct and could be a serious issue in the right set of circumstances.

    I would use it either way myself as mentioned just a FYI.
    Last edited by danielplace; 08-18-2018 at 05:18 PM.

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