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Thread: Help the Shop Teacher!

  1. #26
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by gijoe985 View Post
    Hello everyone,



    Projects? Anyone have any suggestions for small projects that would be cheap? I was thinking of a hitch cover. We also have a CNC plasma cutter which could do some pretty cool stuff once it is running.

    I'm also struggling to figure out how to keep everyone busy. I've got a class of 24 students and only 8 welding booths...

    I'll keep you guys posted and I really do appreciate the help.
    My nephew made a lawn chair from 3/8 rod and light expanded metal in his high school shop class. It required a lot of time shaping the rod and a little welding.

  2. #27
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    I'm seeing a pile of HotGlue machines so unless the stick machines are hiding, what's the concern about rods?

  3. #28
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    A very important point is to make sure that YOU use the correct nomenclature. The students can and will look things up based on what terms you use. So avoid slang, and where possible, use exactly the same phrases as your teaching material uses. As an example, if you fall back into calling stick welding "arc" welding, your students will be confused when they google arc welding and come across sub-arc processes.

    I seem to recall that there are charts that explain what each number/letter of a welding rod means. There is one on this page: http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...ding-rods.html . Teach your kids to understand the charts instead of just writing down 6010, 7018, etc. I've been to a lot of technical classes and the most effective were the ones that not only taught you the material but that also taught you what you needed to look up more information.

    Good luck with the class. I've taught a few (to adults) and found it very satisfying when you get even a few good students.

    Dan
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    Measure twice. Weld once. Grind to size.

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  4. #29
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    As long as the rods aren’t wet or the flux falling off they should be fine. Even the 7018 should work for doing pad beads it’s not like they are doing x ray work. The hardest part of a shop class especially with 24 kids is keeping everyone productive without anyone screwing around and getting hurt. As far as projects I’d look around the shop do you need any tables or saw horses material racks etc why use limited funds buying things you can build
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  5. #30
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

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    We've got booths and SMAW welders. But no fire extinguishers... So I should look into that. (Again, this is a new facility and we're learning as we go. )

  6. #31
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by gijoe985 View Post

    We've got booths and SMAW welders. But no fire extinguishers... So I should look into that. (Again, this is a new facility and we're learning as we go. )
    I wouldn't just look into it - urgency is needed. Can't imagine the size of the fine if you get inspected without them.

    I agree with farmshop above - burn all the rods that'll light. Rods are expensive.

    However, getting your rods from the education portal of Lincoln will only cost you $1 per pound (or just a little more).

    Free shipping on $500 or more.
    Dave J.

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  7. #32
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    I see what look like Lincoln tombstone stick welders. They are AC only and make learning difficult because you get a lot of sticking of the rods. They also will not run 6010. If they are AC/DC machines the DC only runs on 115 volts. I never understood why Lincoln would offer the AC/DC version.


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  8. #33
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by JGPenfield View Post
    I see what look like Lincoln tombstone stick welders. They are AC only and make learning difficult because you get a lot of sticking of the rods. They also will not run 6010. If they are AC/DC machines the DC only runs on 115 volts. I never understood why Lincoln would offer the AC/DC version.


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    I've taught using the AC only model and the kids didn't have any trouble with 6013 and 7014 rods.

    I don't understand your "115 volts" reference?
    Dave J.

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  9. #34
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Can we get to the basic questions?
    It's 4 October, and it doesn't look like the first kid has struck the first arc yet.

    How many minutes per school day are those kids sitting in welding shop doing Zip Q Nada?

    How many of those machines are powered?

    Sure looked like a big ITW parking lot of blue machines in the other pics, even cylinders of different gases. Looks like several Hot Glue machines.

    Is the object of spending taxpayer money to teach kids to be welding machine operators, or build another monument?

  10. #35
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    I've taught using the AC only model and the kids didn't have any trouble with 6013 and 7014 rods.

    I don't understand your "115 volts" reference?
    Lincoln sells two tombstone welders. The classic for $300 is 250 volt AC only. The newer one is $500 and runs both AC and DC. But DC only runs at 125 (115) volts.


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  11. #36
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by JGPenfield View Post
    Lincoln sells two tombstone welders. The classic for $300 is 250 volt AC only. The newer one is $500 and runs both AC and DC. But DC only runs at 125 (115) volts.


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    You are still not making sense.

    The AC only model is 225 amps max (output).
    The AC/DC model is 225 amps AC and 125 amps DC (outputs).

    It runs on 230 volts AC power (input).
    Dave J.

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  12. #37
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil5 View Post
    Can we get to the basic questions?
    It's 4 October, and it doesn't look like the first kid has struck the first arc yet.

    How many minutes per school day are those kids sitting in welding shop doing Zip Q Nada?

    How many of those machines are powered?

    Sure looked like a big ITW parking lot of blue machines in the other pics, even cylinders of different gases. Looks like several Hot Glue machines.

    Is the object of spending taxpayer money to teach kids to be welding machine operators, or build another monument?
    The basic question is: when are you going to get off your high horse and shut your pie hole on education bashing?

    A normal person would ask: "Are you getting ready for a class to start or is one in session that you were thrown into unprepared and unsupported by the district and need help because you are over your head?"

    Wading through your complete BS is tiresome and boring.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

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  13. #38
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    You are still not making sense.

    The AC only model is 225 amps max (output).
    The AC/DC model is 225 amps AC and 125 amps DC (outputs).

    It runs on 230 volts AC power (input).
    You are correct. The input is 230 volts for both. I thought it was like some machines that ran off 115 or 230 input. The amperage though for DC is 1/2 that of the AC output as though it is only being powered with 115 volts. That is my question. Why is the amperage 1/2 for the DC output? Why not give it similar amperage for DC. By the way, I agree with your post above this one. This poor teacher was thrown into the calamity and needs help, not insults.


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  14. #39
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by JGPenfield View Post
    You are correct. The input is 230 volts for both. I thought it was like some machines that ran off 115 or 230 input. The amperage though for DC is 1/2 that of the AC output as though it is only being powered with 115 volts. That is my question. Why is the amperage 1/2 for the DC output? Why not give it similar amperage for DC. By the way, I agree with your post above this one. This poor teacher was thrown into the calamity and needs help, not insults.


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    It's a great question on the DC output. Unfortunately I don't remember the specifics off hand.

    But it has to do with how they are rectifying the AC into DC and the costs involved in making components larger.

    To get the same (or nearly so) amperage output for both AC and DC costs more money.

    Their bigger, much more expensive, Idealarc 250 has much better output on DC but is over $2,000.
    35-300A AC
    40-250A DC
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Syncro 350
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  15. #40
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    To answer a few questions, we have the AC/DC machines. I was surprised that they spent the money to get me those, let alone something better.

    I'll have to apologize to Virgil above, I guess I never made it clear that we are in a new facility and we're still unpacking things. We haven't even gotten the building inspector to approve of us using the welders yet. We're allowed to occupy the building and unpack, but that's it.

    Also, for perspective, the current welding course is actually a combined welding and construction trades course. So for the one semester that I get these kids, they're only be doing a little bit of welding. Very basic stuff. I teach 4 periods of auto shop and then this is the new class (2 periods long) which is supposed to be a combined construction (woods) and welding class where kids can get their feet wet.

    I'm not planning on producing any professional pipe welders as of yet... just trying t give the kids a little seat time so that they could take a more advanced course if they were interested.

  16. #41
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by JGPenfield View Post
    Lincoln sells two tombstone welders. The classic for $300 is 250 volt AC only. The newer one is $500 and runs both AC and DC. But DC only runs at 125 (115) volts.


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    Dave is correct. The Lincoln Ac180, AC225 and AcDc 225/125 all run on 220/230v power.
    Jason
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  17. #42
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    I'm currently teaching blended classes in one room of beginner to 3rd year of wood shop, machining, carpentry and welding (stick, tig, mig, oxy).
    Dave, just curious... where in Minnesota do you teach?

  18. #43
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashcup View Post
    Dave, just curious... where in Minnesota do you teach?
    I'm teaching north of Bemidji in a small school.

    I also teach 7th math, 7th/8th woodshop, Alg 2 and calculus.
    Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 10-04-2018 at 08:24 PM.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Syncro 350
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  19. #44
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    No wonder Dave is so smart. Not only does he know stick, TIG, mig, and oxy acetylene, he also knows woodworking, carpentry, machining as well as algebra and calculus.


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  20. #45
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    The stick welders shown appear to be the ac/dc models. And while they do only have something like a 130 amps on dc that will work just fine for what they need. If all else fails get some 3/32 rods. It’s high school welding not pipeline work. Along with fire extinguishers a fire blanket is a must. Also go over what is required clothing for shop work. NO synthetic materials that can melt should be worn. Long pants and shoes. It seems silly but when I was in school we had kids trying to get the teacher to let them weld in shorts and sandals. Maybe poll the students maybe someone has a dad or uncle in the field that could help
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  21. #46
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by gijoe985 View Post
    We haven't even gotten the building inspector to approve of us using the welders yet. We're allowed to occupy the building and unpack, but that's it.
    .
    Having the fire extinguishers present in the room may go a long way in getting his approval for welding in there. He may walk in, see no extinguishers and reject you right there because of it, and not even look at a single other thing. Then you will have to get some and reschedule a time for another inspection and wait for that time. If you do get rejected, ask him for a list of the reasons so you may be able to address them.

  22. #47
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Something I just thought of.

    Check with principle and school board see what the kids are allowed to do without you being right there aka how close do you need to supervise them.

    If allowed set the kids in groups. For example,

    Group 1-welding on pratice plates
    Group 2- cutting and or prepping plates for next class (mill scale removal etc)
    Group 3-watching demonstration

    Have the kids rotate through the groups so everyone gets experience with each task and stays busy.

    Personally I think that is a lot of kids for one adult learning a activity that can be very dangerous will the school let you have one or two teachers aids even if just to supervise cutting and grinding for safety reasons?

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  23. #48
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    The basic question is: when are you going to get off your high horse and shut your pie hole on education bashing?

    A normal person would ask: "Are you getting ready for a class to start or is one in session that you were thrown into unprepared and unsupported by the district and need help because you are over your head?"

    Wading through your complete BS is tiresome and boring.
    You really want to hang your Moderator sign in the closet and have that discussion out in the open, No Quarter?

    Name me one other field of endeavor short of "Mental Health" delivering the abysmal results Public Education is with the audacity to brag on their accomplishments? Public Education is turning kids off to learning, and turning them onto violent response.

    I've watched entirely too many UNION teachers run scam, and have yet to meat one with a plan beyond welfare for the outproduct of Public Education. Public Education makes the US Post Office look like a shining star in comparative outcome.

    WHAT do you propose industrial society does with your product?
    Your UNION declared back in the 70s "When kids pay Union Dues we will care about Educating kids." and a few years later "School just needs to teach basic communication and minimal Math, Industry will make our Graduates what Industry needs and desires.

    Sorry Dave, by the time you came into the system it was already corrupt beyond help. The system you walked into was designed to intake empty heads and output basic entry level industrial workers, and managed due largely because Draft Deferments were extended by taking Public Teaching jobs in the VietNam years.

    The instant question of a man standing in a new shop that can't be used actually offers a world of opportunity to be a teaching experience. He has 28 pair of hands and eyeballs to say nothing of ears, and a room full of items that can only be viewed and pushed around. It will turn to a learning experience or it will turn into a demolition and sabotage experience. I've seen both happen before you ever became a teacher. Somebody either turns it to a teaching opportunity or watches it go to hell.

    The Teacher has stated he isn't a weldor, but thinks he can fake it. I ain't spending my time on that. 20 of 28 kids already know they've been scammed on the welding they were promised.

    Why not turn it into teaching how to build a shop and set it up? Why not reach out to UA and utilize UA's difficulty in finding apprentices to the degree they are running radio advertising in that attempt? Same applies to Tinknockers. Both have Apprenticeship coordinators and recruiters available, and both would probably appreciate the chance. I counted at least 4 cylinders in one picture, that means a local supplier. Call that supplier in to show kids how machines are properly set up rather than guessing it. He wants to sell gas and consumables and he will probably see potential future customers to build relationships with.
    There's a pile of welding rod laying there, it needs to be sorted, inventoried and stocked. That too can either become drudgery or a teaching opportunity.

    OR

    Everybody sits arounbd waiting
    Kids learn NOTHING
    Some Administrator figures out how to cover up welding isn't being taught
    AND
    The fraud continues.

  24. #49
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Virgil5 - you're a complete idiot if you think all schools and all teachers are the way you say.

    That guy from the 70's doesn't speak for me. Why don't you open your eyes and look at the big damn shop that school above just put together for their kids.

    Your views are so utterly short sighted that you can't even see their program is going to teach a lot of students once it's set up.

    Growing pains for the first year mean nothing for a shop that can then teach for decades.

    So why don't you quit complaining and lend a hand somewhere without your endless babble.

    Otherwise shut it and find another website to troll.

    If you're who I think you are, you've been banned before. That means if you irritate people you are gone.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Syncro 350
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  25. #50
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    Re: Help the Shop Teacher!

    Id say the school is well equipped starting off out of the gate. Looks like a plasma cam cnc table there also. Excellent tools for a learning environment there.
    Jason
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