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Thread: Going to test a few varnishes

  1. #1
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    Going to test a few varnishes

    Following the advice I received here I went to the local artist supply store to get some Krypton spray to protect my metal sculptures. Well they had 3 kinds that looked like they would work so I am going to coat a few test samples and post results here. Just need to make a small paint booth first.

    Anyone has worked with any of those 3?

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  2. #2
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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Never used any of those, but just finished up a xmas gift that I need to clear after I clean it well, so I'm looking forward to your review of these.

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Yep, I’ve used all of them. The one on the left is UV proofed and has a bit of yellow tinge due to the UV modifiers, it is a standard reduction so it flows and runs easily so work in light misting coats. The middle can is a standard reduction varnish but is the most clear of any of the clear finishes I have shot. The one on the right is clear as well but reduced less so it is a fast build. All three will show a clouding on application but will dry clear at full cure.

    “Clear” is a relative term. Most clear coats have a slight yellowish color. I’ve shot. Everything from automotive laquers to very extravagant 5 part aviation finishes and it’s just the nature of the beast. Clears are also notoriously intolerant of UV so display pieces need to be shielded from high exposure. It is not uncommon to see crazing appear after a few month exposure to direct sunlight.

    OK for the cheap out small finish booth. Get a large cardboard box from the grocery store and pick up a furnace filter from the hardware store, add a small house hold fan and you have the ingredient list for a small spray booth. Simply cutouts hole in the box to accept the filter and assemble using duct tape. Place the fan against the filter to draw the airflow through the box and aim it out n open window. Kind of Apollo 13 technical crude but it works.
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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Roger,
    How does this brand compare to the Rustoleum clear coats?
    It seems like the Krylon is hit or miss with some of the paints. Rustoleum seems a bit better in general in my opinion.
    Patrice,
    Please post your thoughts and results on these paints.


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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    I'll post results in a few days Patrick.

    Roger, thanks a bunch. Helps me get a better idea of what I am testing cause I know nothing about paint, varnishes and such. Quick trip to the hardware store to get supplies to make the box as you suggested.

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    I'll connect it to my dust/fume extractor. But tomorrow, enough done today.

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    I fully understand the “hit or miss” on KRYLON spray paints. I try to stay clear of their rattle can offerings as much as I can. It’s usually thin and low build, meaning it takes a lot of mist coats to get good coverage. The main advantage to KRYLON is it has a fast dry time which makes it popular for the DIY market.

    Rust-O-leum finishes are much better for color coating and corrosion resistance. The rattle can paints are the same as the bulk pack (pt., qt., and gallon) paints. You need to pay attention to thinners though as some require different thinners. Longer open times with a 4-6 hour tape hard being common and a 24 hour 70 degree hard cure being common. The clear is durable but not really clear as it has a distinct amber tint that will affect final finish shading.

    I might also suggest for filling in engraving like I have seen you do, consider some genuine One Shot Sign painters enamel. Pinstripes swear by it. It flows well and sticks to non porous surfaces well (glass and polished metals). Clean up is simple spirits enamel reducer. I have air brushed it but never shot any thing through a trim gun.
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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Roger I don't want to get ahead of myself too much, I need to give rattle cans a good try first. But when I am ready to move on to a better setup, would a airbrush do the trick for smaller sculptures or do is the next step up a full size paint gun?
    Thanks.

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Patrice, the piece I'm about to clear is small (less than 1' cubed) with a lot of nooks and crannies. I've got some acrylic varnish, and I actually thought about using one of my airbrushes to apply it. They'll take longer to get coverage (obviously), but are less of a hassle for me personally because of how much easier it is to clean them. You might also try a small "touch up" paint gun if you're only using it occasionally. No need for a giant gun for small projects.

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Quote Originally Posted by PatriceL View Post
    Roger I don't want to get ahead of myself too much, I need to give rattle cans a good try first. But when I am ready to move on to a better setup, would a airbrush do the trick for smaller sculptures or do is the next step up a full size paint gun?
    Thanks.
    Sorry Patrice. PSA is also a “Pat” and several of my remarks were directed to him, but since you ask.

    Rattle cans are a fixed spray for the most part. Some of the better brands have an adjustable fan pattern but it is rare and the pressure is what it is with no adjustment. Not a big deal for the intended audience, but for those of us doing detailed work the lack of adjustment can be tricky to work around. Hence the “trim gun” and air brush. Good news though, because the Horrible Fright trim gun and their airbrush are really decent quality for short money. I assume Canadien Tire has a similar offering.

    https://www.harborfreight.com/adjust...gun-92126.html

    https://www.harborfreight.com/deluxe...kit-95810.html

    The air brush is a “dual action” meaning the trigger can control both fluid and air independently, which is a desired feature.
    Roger
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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Thanks Mike, I'll do some research about "touch up" paint guns.

    Roger, I did figure you were talking to Patrick. I looked it up and Canadian Tire does have something similar. I thought I would have to spend a lot more to give it a quick try. Definitely something I'll try after the cans. So many things to learn...
    Thanks

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    So a poster has been advised to build a cardboard box spray booth and the fan is going to suck the fumes out? That should make an interesting effect when the correct concentration of paint propellant reaches the electric motor.

    Seriously?

    Use Le Tonkinoise Marine Number 1 varnish with a foam brush and live happily ever after.
    Do not believe everything that you think.

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Best clear coat I've found and used for several yrs is Flood Penetrol sprayed on with a gun.
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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post
    So a poster has been advised to build a cardboard box spray booth and the fan is going to suck the fumes out? That should make an interesting effect when the correct concentration of paint propellant reaches the electric motor.

    Seriously?

    Use Le Tonkinoise Marine Number 1 varnish with a foam brush and live happily ever after.
    What? I was suppose to start the test tonight but not I am not sure.

    A brushed on finish is interesting but not sure how well it would work for a sculpture with lots on nooks and crannies.

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Tests on hold until I know more about this.

    This is my exhaust fan.

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Patrice,
    Since no one else has chimed in on your concerns about the fumes, I will try to re-start this conversation and offer my point of view.

    My opinion is don't worry about it.

    Correct me if I am wrong on the following set up.
    The way I see your paint box being set up is that the suction for the paint box is the square duct work and is the adapter to the existing round intake for the exhaust fan. The round duct work goes to the squirrel cage blower of your fan and then exits your shop/house. The fan motor is outside the duct work and flow of air for this system.

    On to fuel/air mixtures. My understanding is that the mixture will only ignite when the correct concentration of fuel to oxygen is present. If you are using the spray box to draw in fumes and overspray, very little fumes should be dispersed into your work shop. This will depend upon the strength of the blower or Cubic Feet per Minute (or for you metric people Cubic Meters/Liters per Minute).

    Your typical sculpture or piece that you are painting will be less than 1 cubic foot. At any given time, you will use less than 1/2 can of spray paint. In between coats or while drying, you will be working on other items and probably going in and out of the shop. This will allow for some air flow in and out of the shop.

    If you are concerned about fumes gathering in the shop, you can turn on the exhaust fan while the paint is curing and you are doing other work.

    Hopefully others will chime in and help to answer some of your concerns.
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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Thanks Patrick. With what you said (and others privately) the more I think about it the less I am concerned.

    As you said, the amount of paint I will be using is minimal. Half a can might be for all 3 coats and all the fumes will be evacuated between them.

    The fan I am using is a dust collector made for wood. I am using it for steel myself but with all metal ducts and venting outside. I know wood dust is also very volatile and I don't see how they would make it so that sparks would come in contact with the flow.

    I have the ducting set up with gates so that the full force of the fan goes to only one collector being used at the time. And for a 1HP blower that means a high CFM. At the grinder I had to add a mesh screen because a few times it ripped a belt from my hands while changing it. That was a pain to clean from the propeller.

    Of course if anyone has other thoughts either way I really would appreciate.

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Xsbank has valid concerns in an industrial or larger setting. They just don't fit your particular situation.

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    One thing that can't be tested is the 'time' test. How does this one or that one hold up over a long period of time ? That's where you have to rely on the input from someone who may have used a krylon product maybe 5 years ago or something like that. I remember seeing a deal like consumer reports or a similar group doing a long term test on a group of deck sealers. They treated several major brands, all applied as per instructions, then analyzed how each held up after a certain multi-year time frame.
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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Yes, if the motor is isolated from the propellant you will not blow yourself up.

    Take a look at this:http://www.tonkinois.com/gb_algemeen.htm Look at the section on corrosion. American Rope and Tar sells it.

    It can be thinned 15% and sprayed. I like Marine Number one but then I'm using it on wood right now.
    Do not believe everything that you think.

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    While I haven’t tried your exact three, I have tried a few different manufacturers for clear sealing metal. I wouldn’t think any would stand up to a years weather outside.
    But, for metal living outside I did stumble on a clear coat aerosol canned spray paint that has a hardener in its ingredients (like the two part mixes they use in spray-gun systems). It’s called SprayMax 3680061, 2K Urethane Clear Coat, Aerosol (gloss). They also offer a Matte finish. I used it on a auto bumper that I refinished and it’s tough as nails and matches the cars exiting clear coat quite nicely. ( did it a year ago)
    The innovative part of the product is that it’s two products in one aerosol can. When your ready to paint you puncture the inside can with a supplied disk with a puncture point, shake and spray.

    In my using it I found the pros are it’s the closest thing to spay-gun two part mixes for clear finishing in an aerosol.
    The cons are once it’s punctured, you have to use it all as it will setup after a time and be unusable. Using a quality air filtration mask is 100% mandatory 0 exceptions.
    The overspray will firmly attach itself to everything it comes in contact with.

    I’ve done lots of “regular” aerosol painting and clear coating in my garage (cars out) with no problems, including high temp wrinkle paint.
    A 10 to 15 foot clear zone for overspray has worked fine. The overspray dries before it hits the floor and can be swept up.
    The SprayMax Clear Coat, Aerosol left a faint coating on items 25 feet away and had to be vigorously scrubbed off.

    Hope this info might help.
    Good luck!
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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Of course I can't test for long term resistance, yellowing, etc... Only short term results.

    Ok here is the latest.

    First off my setup, for now anyway. Eventually I'll build something a bit more solid maybe and with doors to close while the sculpture dries to help with dust. If it's worth building it's worth over building right?

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    And of course the mask I am using. Also something I might upgrade eventually.

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    Now the 3 products again and the test pieces. Stainless steel (304), one with a brushed finish (3M deburring wheel, 7S) and one with a mirror finish (600 grit on the belt sander and green chrome buffing wheel). All were then cleaned with acetone.

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    And the results. (3 coats applied with 10 minutes drying time between each)

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    1) The UV resistant Gloss: On the brushed sample it worked ok, a bit of an orange peel look but that's most likely because I don't know exactly how much to apply with each coat. On the mirror finish though it did not work well at all, pearled a lot, never really wetting until the last coat because of the amount but very bumpy finish.

    2) The Crystal Clear: About the same on the brushed sample. The mirror one though was even worst, only pearling even after 3 coats.

    3) The Clear Glaze: The winner. By far the best of the 3. Wetting (not sure that's the proper painting term) very well even on the mirror finish.

    Now I will let it cure, probably 48 hours unless I should do more?
    Then it will be a scratch test.

    Feel free if you have any input. Thanks

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    If you don't want any yellowing use Clear ENAMEL spray.

    It comes in a rattle can as well.

    Rustoleum has it and I can actually buy it in California
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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    You should be able to buy VOC filters that will fit the 3M mask you already have. Those are particulate filters and won't help much with painting.

    Nice reference photo for the clear coats, look forward to seeing what seems most "durable".

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    Brocolli I may try the enamels again but last time I did I did not have much success.

    MiteyF, thanks a bunch, I find a VOC filter. I sure misunderstood the explanations I read thinking a P100 would do the job.

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    Re: Going to test a few varnishes

    If you can smell paint when you are painting with the resp on then it's not helping any .
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