How should I run 220 to my shop?

[ezduzit]

...if he's just trying to get a 220 receptacle installed...

Come on!

[GiantTechGuy]

Services and feeders are not sized by simple addition of all the loads,other factors are involved. So you may think just because its a 50 amp panel that you are limited to this load at 20 amps and that load at whatever and now you have exceeded the 50.

But you very well may not have exceeded it.

[GiantTechGuy]

Come on!

Again... if money is an issue. I repeat I am not against installing a larger feed. COME ON !

[GiantTechGuy]

What is the horse power rating of your air compressor? If its a 30 gallon tank then its probably no more than than a 6 amp draw. Then the plasma cutter is a Hypertherm 45? if so it draws max current of 28 amps?

[Keith Merrell]

There is a 30 amp breaker for the AC, 30 amp breaker for the well pump, a 30 amp breaker for the lights, and a 20 amp breaker for the receptacles. The AC and well pump are a very real load, and will be running often. How could I get a 100 amp subpanel to the shop? I have no space in the main panel, and the subpanel that is feeding the garage subpanel is a 100 amp subpanel itself.

[Willie B]

The best way to do this is to ignore advice from those who know. Blunder blindly into adversity. You are certain to accidentally find a better way. God be with you.

[N2 Welding]

So the 100a sub panel that feeds the garage feeds what else other than the garage?

[Keith Merrell]

The whole west wing of the house, so an air conditioner and just basic other stuff, like lights etc

[N2 Welding]

Pics of the main and sub's may help in this thread.

[slowlane]

No offense Keith, but you are like 14 years old, right? Where are you going to get the funds for all of this, and do you really need full time electrical service for the welding you do? I would go cheap and make an extension cord to run from the spa sub panel to the garage. At most you would need to have an outlet installed at the sub panel, invest in some 8/2 SOOW, and a set of 6/50 plugs/receptacles for the extension cable. Just turn the spa off when welding. Either that or plug into the existing garage sub panel and turn off enough circuits that it will power your welder.

I agree. It's considered temp wiring, but hey, if he taps into the load side, I'd have no problem with doing it. It's only one dedicated recpt. The only other way I would do this is going underground with 3 #8 THHN. It's only 50 feet. It's a separate structure so a 60 amp 3R nonfused disconnect would be required on the garage, and then he would come from that into the garage with #6 romex to his recpt. Done deal.

[kbeitz]

30 amps for the lights?

[John T]

The best way to do this is to ignore advice from those who know. Blunder blindly into adversity. You are certain to accidentally find a better way. God be with you.

agree.

Its like the blind leading the blind.

To Keith Merrell,
Tell your FATHER to call an electrician and stay out of it. You are over your head.

It would be a cold day in hell when I let my 14 year old kid start planning the electrical requirements for anything.

[kbeitz]

agree.

Its like the blind leading the blind.

To Keith Merrell,
Tell your FATHER to call an electrician and stay out of it. You are over your head.

It would be a cold day in hell when I let my 14 year old kid start planning the electrical requirements for anything.

Sure glad you was not my Dad...

[John T]

Sure glad you was not my Dad...

Me too.

If I was, I'd be older than moses.

[GiantTechGuy]

There is a 30 amp breaker for the AC, 30 amp breaker for the well pump, a 30 amp breaker for the lights, and a 20 amp breaker for the receptacles. The AC and well pump are a very real load, and will be running often. How could I get a 100 amp subpanel to the shop? I have no space in the main panel, and the subpanel that is feeding the garage subpanel is a 100 amp subpanel itself.

Well, now that we have known loads.....

But I question the 30 amp breaker for lights, sounds like its over fused. Also 30 amp for the pump, standard residential would be a 20.

How big is this building ?

Anyway being that the AC would be running often then ya you better be asking Dad to open his pockets LOL

[danielplace]

Another 60 from the main panel should still be doable to run another small sub and take the welder out of it and plenty of reserves for future if the welder load is not being used that is a bunch of extra power considering the 60 sub you already have you should be able to do whatever you need with a combined 120 available. You are likely never going to need more than that would provide. A extra 100 even better but that may not be great idea as if you did find need for using more than 60 out of the 100 you are going to start taxing the main a bit heavily with the 100 sub it already has although we know a good part of that is your existing garage sub panels load also. You would still have to know all the real loads the rest of the service has on it before you can say whether better to add the 60 or a 100. The cost of the wire run would be half on the 60 and if that is all you will ever need it may be better choice for you.

You did say the main panel was out of breaker space also and that is still a issue ? Often there are ways to solve that depending on what is actually there ?

[Oscar]

agree.

Its like the blind leading the blind.

To Keith Merrell,
Tell your FATHER to consult who ever controls the finances in your house to call an electrician and stay out of it. You are over your head.

It would be a cold day in hell when I let my 14 year old kid start planning the electrical requirements for anything.

Agreed as well, just added an extra line.

Keith, Listen to JohnT, and also read between the lines in WillieB's post. You are in over your head.

[bigb]

Run it all in 1" or 1 1/4" PVC pipe in ground from the house panel/service to the garage and put in a sub panel then install your breaker to feed your outlet then you have a useful panel right there for future. I would not take less than 60 out there and upsize to #4 copper THHN hots #6 neutral and a #10 ground and you'll be golden.

Are you forgetting about 250.122(B)?

[MetalMan23]

agree.

Its like the blind leading the blind.

To Keith Merrell,
Tell your FATHER to call an electrician and stay out of it. You are over your head.

It would be a cold day in hell when I let my 14 year old kid start planning the electrical requirements for anything.

Hell might be cold, who knows?

[danielplace]

Are you forgetting about 250.122(B)?

You thinking the ground should be a #8 instead of a #10 since the legs are #4 now.

Ok. Pull a #8 ground.

[henry42]

If you're going to be giving this kid advice, shouldn't you be a licensed electrician? Kid's only 14, may be smarter than many on ww, but at least he's got enough sense to ask and the only answer he should have been given was to consult an electrician.

[danielplace]

If you're going to be giving this kid advice, shouldn't you be a licensed electrician? Kid's only 14, may be smarter than many on ww, but at least he's got enough sense to ask and the only answer he should have been given was to consult an electrician.

Been one of those since July of 1985. This isn't much more than child's play.

Different world we live in I guess. When I was 14 years old pretty certain I could have wired a friggin' house. That is what I was doing when I was 15.

First electrical job I did was a 3/4" EMT run 75 feet to a deep 1900 with a 6-50r outlet for a arc welder run out of a 3 phase panel in of huge shop. My dad had bought all the stuff and left for the day when he got back from doing service calls in the afternoon the pipe was run, wire pulled, outlet was in and welder was operational and it was run neat as heck, perfectly level and strapped nicely. I was 12 years old.

[Ypop]

danielplace around that age I was welding, driving and doing some electrical. We all forget what we did at that age. Driving was on a farm standard shift standard steering 3/4 ton pickup.

[Willie B]

Been one of those since July of 1985. This isn't much more than child's play.

Different world we live in I guess. When I was 14 years old pretty certain I could have wired a friggin' house. That is what I was doing when I was 15.

First electrical job I did was a 3/4" EMT run 75 feet to a deep 1900 with a 6-50r outlet for a arc welder run out of a 3 phase panel in of huge shop. My dad had bought all the stuff and left for the day when he got back from doing service calls in the afternoon the pipe was run, wire pulled, outlet was in and welder was operational and it was run neat as heck, perfectly level and strapped nicely. I was 12 years old.

My story is similar. Yes. A 14 year old can do this work. A 14 year old who has no prior experience will need more than a couple paragraphs to get it right. I started drawing a paycheck at age 13. I had completed my first year of high school 9th grade. Dad needed help, I needed a job. I took great pride, and was fascinated by the work. That winter, Dad had bought me two Jeeps. One had a drive train, the other had a frame. Neither had a body. I wanted a Jeep so bad, I learned how.

At 16 I tore down an old house to get cheap building materials. I built a three bay Jeep garage. The electricity was the easy part. I hand dug ditch 60 feet 46" deep through a boulder field. Rocks 4' across came out. The rest of the way was overhead, passed 40 feet through my father's garage that had earlier had only power for lighting. I put 100 amps in that building. It was Mine!

I had the luxury of training, and a master electrician I could consult twice a day.

You, daniel, aren't there to coach. With the confidence of youth, supplementing the confidence of some advice, is a deadly combination. A young man could do a lot of harm with your limited advice

[danielplace]

Never really discussed the details of doing the actual job itself so not sure what you mean by offering advice on which way may or may not be a better way to do it or HAVE it done is a bad idea. If you say so. To me it didn't really seem like he was really looking to do the job as much as what job would be best to do. Maybe that was the plan I don't know. Seems doable to me with a little further instruction and of course with some adult in chare of the house having knowledge of what is happening.

This is the electric section thought that was kinda the idea aren't we supposed to make suggestions when some one asks opinions of what to do. Anything we discuss could usually get someone in trouble if they weren't smart enough to do whatever it is they are trying to do safely.

OMG the kid is 14 years old. Some 14 year olds are smarter than many 40 year olds.
I find it really weird the amount of stuff that gets discussed here and now of a sudden we shouldn't even be talking about it. Did you think he was going to get in over his head ? I mean really we discussed where it could be fed from and ways it could be run I do not think that would be enough to get anyone buying parts at Home Depot.

Maybe there should be a minimum age limit to enter the dangerous world that lives in this section. Welding though assume is 100% safe for all ages or are we not supposed to discuss anything with anyone that could be a danger to him/herself.

If you could edit I would just delete all and quit wasting my time here.

Hey kid don't try this yourself. You could be seriously injured or killed messing around with the electrical.