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Thread: Slag inclusions when weaving?

  1. #26
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    Quote Originally Posted by walker View Post
    The uphill zig zag would be a more basic pattern, lace caps is the opposite extreme of weaving.
    walker; lace cap,lazy D or texas lace weave? now there's an expression you hardly hear nowadays. some of those cowboy pipe guys could lay down some nice looking welds.
    Last edited by docwelder; 01-06-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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  2. #27
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    I guess to teach someone to weld the proper thing to do would be to teach stringers first because that seems to be a bit harder to master, then get into weave and see what can be done if its done right.

    Lotechman mentioned weaves on heavy equipment...we do that a lot. I do when I am stick welding on buckets but that doesn't happen very often, I usually run Innershield 233. I found, for myself anyway, I make a much nicer weld using stringers with this wire, and it seems to go just as fast as weaving. So I do stringers running Innershield, stick welding I will weave that whole doggone thing the whole way out with 3/16 and 1/4 7018 once I get a root in it. Unless its a boom for a shovel or excavator, those Ive been told require a &018 and stringers and some of them have some pretty strict weld procedures.

    Snoepro said he was never on a structural job where a weave was frowned upon...shucks I wish I could say that. I was never on a structural job in the past 15 years or so where it was accepted. One of those welds I had to cut out wasn't a weave at all. It was a 1 inch vertical fillet, all stringers were in there from the root to the 4 bead cap. I forget what the allowance for the width of a single bead was, Im thinkin it was 3/8 or somethin like that. The weld was 9 foot long or so maybe a bit less or more, there was one spot for about 5 or 6 inches that was not quite 7/16 but just a wee bit over 3/8 using a fillet gauge. That fella made me cut out the whole damn weld with a torch over that 6 inches. If you ask me putting in all that heat with a torch and then rewelding it again did more harm than that little bit of extra weld in that one bead. But who am I to say Im just a damn welder, Im glad to be out of that racket and back home where nobody bothers me
    Last edited by Popeye an old miner; 01-06-2019 at 04:49 PM.

  3. #28
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    Quote Originally Posted by docwelder View Post
    walker; lace cap,lazy D or texas lace weave? now there's an expression you hardly hear nowadays. some of those cowboy pipe guys could lay down some nice looking welds.
    I would like to see pictures of those

  4. #29
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    Quote Originally Posted by docwelder View Post
    walker; lace cap,lazy D or texas lace weave? now there's an expression you hardly hear nowadays. some of those cowboy pipe guys could lay down some nice looking welds.
    Yeah they could. Collier( tips and tricks) was one of them

  5. #30
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    Avoid weaving wider than 5/8" as I believe this is the limit in D1.1 (going off memory as i dont have the book in reach) and carry on the rest based on the WPS. (no more than 1/16" wider, 1/16" over, etc.) At the end of the day, the inspectors opinion is just that. He has to test you and inspect your coupon based on the book and provided procedure.
    Welding --- My paid hobby!

  6. #31
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapman Industries View Post
    passing the bend test wan't the problem for me when I did them. Its the xray that screwed me. I had slag trapped in my welds because I was young and didn't realize what I was doing wrong. they still held, but slag is a big no, no on the xray.
    I believe this is the experience that's starting to unfold for me as well. I have passed 10 of 10 bend tests but I still think my problem areas are the very beginning, the very end, and the exact middle --where there are no coupons cut. X-rayed plates need 6" of continuous perfect welds to pass.

    That being said, any suggestions? Why did you think you had slag entrapments?

  7. #32
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    Don't weld cold, you'll be fine. Every place you go has a different take on bead width. I like to go as wide as they let me, if I need to.

    Why don't you try it and see what happens? You're only in school, they aren't going to fire you for making a bad weld.
    Last edited by TimmyTIG; 01-11-2019 at 06:49 AM.

  8. #33
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    Recommendations like no weaving are made to increase the chance that welds are good all the time, not just on a couple of inch on a coupon under the best possible conditions in room temperature with good light and a well rested and concentrated welder in an optimal working position

    That's why you have welding procedures, certified welders, certified material etc. You want to stack the odds in your favor.

  9. #34
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    Quote Originally Posted by news View Post
    Avoid weaving wider than 5/8" as I believe this is the limit in D1.1 (going off memory
    When the WPS calls for stringers with no weave, what is the reason, typically? Is it to minimize distortion and/or internal stress due to having a big welded area shrink up and distort (or stress) things? And/or reduce overall heat input?

    I've heard that they often call for just stringers (with little or no weave) and wondered why.
    Last edited by Kelvin; 01-11-2019 at 01:28 PM.

  10. #35
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    If you're in school testing like the op, it matters when learning what welds do. If you're not..... It doesn't. Fact is if you're doing anything structural that needs engineered, the engineer will tell you how to weld it. It's not a welders job to think, it's to do what the plans say. If you don't have an engineer to tell you, play welder all you want you're not doing anything that matters how you do it.
    Last edited by One1; 01-12-2019 at 01:35 PM.

  11. #36
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    I'll end with one statement. Uphill electrode is STILL a drag technique////UP !!!/// ....albeit close to 90* and good and hot.

  12. #37
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    When the WPS calls for stringers with no weave, what is the reason, typically? Is it to minimize distortion and/or internal stress due to having a big welded area shrink up and distort (or stress) things? And/or reduce overall heat input?

    I've heard that they often call for just stringers (with little or no weave) and wondered why.
    Ive seen a few reasons but IMO they all lead back to preference. Since there is typically an inverse relationship between strength and ductility, which characteristic would you rather have? A lot of times ive seen it placed on the WPS as a trick questions almost. Can you follow directions or do you have your own way of doing things? Dont get me wrong, theres a difference in properties between weaving and running a stringer. But, at the same time a pass is a pass.

    Run a 1F or 2F test plate on 1" material and you'll quickly learn which method you'd rather be laying down.
    Welding --- My paid hobby!

  13. #38
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    That IS a loaded question.

    If I'm on the 40th floor, and the big one hits...……….I'm thinking I'd rather see the steel go plastic before it fails. It gives me a slight chance that I won't wind up under a pile of rubble. I want that baby to bend like a rubber band, even if it winds up looking like a pretzel. All about the movement. Here, we're dealing with long spans that will move. A tiny steel building will bob like a cork on the waves, a big one won't.

    If I'm under a set of forks with a few thousand pounds on them, I'm gonna opt for strength. I have control over the strain in this situation, and exceed it with due warning, and at my peril.

    No real right answer I suppose. It depends...………...

    Either way, it will break. It's just a matter of the suddenness of the break I suppose.

  14. #39
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    Re: Slag inclusions when weaving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonzoo View Post
    I'll end with one statement. Uphill electrode is STILL a drag technique////UP !!!/// ....albeit close to 90* and good and hot.
    Well technically it's a push, although yer draggin' that puddle up the hill behind ya

    Which gets us back to the old argument about push vs. pull on MIG. Nobody can deny that you get mondo mondo MONDO undercut when you run uphill with a stick electrode. It digs the Grand Canyon. Doesn't do that on a flat weld. This tells ya that you're gettin' a lot of admixture. Some electrodes rely on healthy admixture. Dunno about MIG, but I assume it does to some degree. And, when you're pushin', you doggone know that you got the heat for some honkin' fusion. You're not dissipating your heat into the puddle. Of course, "they" say that fusion only need be a few molecules deep, so that might kill the argument.

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