Welding and Engineering

[BTC Pipe Student]

Hey Everyone ,

I am new to this forum and was wondering if there is anyone out there that have used their skill/knowledge of welding technology to further their career as an engineer.

A little bit about me. I am just finishing up a 2 year technical degree in welding with a specialization in pipe welding. I am currently working as an intern with a pipe fabrication shop. I have some previous experience working as a manufacturing engineer in the Aerospace industry. I took a break from that to develop my fabrication skill. This brought me to taking some welding classes! I found that I really enjoy metal fabrication and I am looking to try and integrate my background in manufacturing engineering and knowledge of welding processes.

Are there any engineers that have used their welding background to further their careers?

Does anyone else have any experience with this?

I would appreciate any and all feedback,

Thanks,

Bryan Thomas

[123weld]

ya know, lately there been a couple claiming exactly what your describing. but ya ask them a question or two, and either there concerned about speaking there mind, or say things that kinda make ya wonder. just my opinion

[ColtonWelds]

I know a guy who tells me he's a "welding engineer". I know he sets weld perimeters at a few local manufacture plants.

[Fast Leroy]

I think anyone with good fabrication skills would make a better engineer over someone without those skills. A good fabricator knows what will work in the real world and what won't, things engineers don't always know.

[Bonzoo]

Weld first. Engineer after
Carpenter first. Architect after,'YOU have taken the correct path.

[Oldendum]

What is your prior education and what type of engineering degree/specialty do you have?

My older boy did two years in mechanical engineering school at VCU before getting killed in Iraq. Younger son got a 2 year Associate of Science degree in welding/machining. Did a few months TIG welding turbine blades for Alstom before he graduated, then got into the machining end. After about 5 years, he just got promoted to lead man/floor boss in the small machining dept where he works. He would be an excellent candidate for E school, but I think he likes what he's doing. Pay is merely OK, but he gets to use his brain every day solving problems in a creative manner. Like designing, programming and machining a fixture or an assembly tool on the fly as need arises. He's not wild about wiping runny noses or keeping the few underlings fingers out of the machines, but he does remember what he was taught in management classes.

[Bonzoo]

Me ? 8 years maintenance of way building tracks and bridges, and roundhouses.
Got sick of winter layoffs, Went to work building racing engines(auto machine shop).
Took night welding courses at a relic car builder ( Charlie Overfelt).
Built cars from chassis up.
Went to Colorado school of trades/gunsmithing. Ace student.Did a stint at the Colt custom shop with Howard Dove.
Moved to Miami. #1 rated gunsmith in US 1985.
Ollie north put a stop to that.Lawyers warned me so I got my tools out a day ahead of the closure.
Welded nuke plant stuff as union 7018 pusher.Indian River and Turkey point nuke dumps
Opened a fish and avocado farm.
Retired in 2005.Degrees on paper ? Never bought one.I got a printout from Colorado. a couple from community night classes.A couple certs from Bechtel nuke garbage. YAY !
Aint been back since

[Welder Dave]

It would be FANTASTIC if some engineers had a welding background! Worked at a couple shops where it's easy to draw a blueprint showing how all the pieces go together. Then when building it there is no way to weld some of the pieces in because there is just not enough room to get at where the welds are needed. OK, get the foreman to take the blueprint back to the office to find a solution to weld the piece(s) in. Also worked at West Edmonton Mall. Yes, I welded on the Mindbender coaster at the very top. They have a welding shop for repairing amusement rides and all kind of things in the mall. They had an engineer that would design things and give the OK on certain jobs. One of the managers was looking at getting a big compressor lifted to the 2nd floor above the water park. Engineer designed an elaborate hoist system to lift the compressor and then put on a special dolly to move into place. I was the welding foreman and asked to provide some kind of time frame to build it and materials list so they could figure out an approx. cost. Instead I suggested using a zoom boom to lift it up since I've seen one in the water park before. They can drain the water if needed. I think my boss and others were almost speechless when I suggested the Zoom Boom. In the end the compressor was too much $$$ and not allowed to be purchased. I think the engineer was trying to milk them as much as possible. No idea how much the hoist design cost. Boss was a former ironworker and designed some things. Big problem was he thinks stuff can be built and put in place and then the engineer can approve it. Wrong!

That's how being the newest welder (2 J welders, 1 apprentice) but with the most experience I became the foreman. I had the authority to allow or disallow things the iron workers or welding shop did. An elevator was taken out of the office portion of the mall and they wanted to weld beams in so a floor could replace the hole from the elevator. The foreman at the time (super nice guy) said he needs to have a stamped and signed engineers drawing approving the beam addition. Boss said to go ahead. Not without approval. Boss comes back with a stamped blueprint but no signature. OK, we have a problem. Boss asks if will be strong enough and everybody agree's it is basically overkill. Current foreman then lays it out. Structural welding requires a stamped and signed approval. He welds it without that and they can take his J welding ticket away! Boss and especially one of the people above him (TOTAL IDIOT) are now pizzed with the welding foreman because he refuses to weld it. I've only been there about 3 weeks and boss asks if I would weld it. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place!!! Don't weld it, sayonara. Weld it and risk repercussions and pizz off current foreman. I agree to weld the big beams in and thankfully the foreman is not mad at me at all. In fact he really helped me getting the beams in and tacking them in place. Over the next few weeks the foreman went from being a "super star" getting everything welded up in record time to being questioned and confronted on just about every job he worked on. He then resigned from being foreman and I was asked if I wanted to be the foreman. Previous foreman stayed for a while but eventually quit because they hounded him about everything. 2 people above the boss were just -ricks!!! 1 of them was from Poland or somewhere and only got the job because he went to the same church as the mall owners. Claimed he was an engineer, millwright or something back in his country. Somehow borrowed 1 of the millwrights books to study and was allowed to challenge the J exam. He was a complete and total idiot and the reason I and many millwrights left the mall. The millwrights actually had a talk with him to stay out of their shop because too many were leaving and having to train new employee's on amusement ride requirements put them behind schedule. That was about 3 years previous and then he started going in their shop again. Since the Mindbender accident where 3 people died new rules were put in place for amusement rides that fell under the elevator and escalators act. 3rd party inspectors would come in and do ultrasound and mag particle testing on the rides. I got along with the inspector! He watched me do a repair on a bogie off the mindbender. I did a 6010 root and 7018 cap. Later when talking to a more senior and better engineer to get a repair procedure qualification. The engineer suggested exactly what I did without knowing what I did. The inspector was pleased and I felt good because I used my pressure welding knowledge on something non pressure but very critical to people's lives. The crash was caused because nuts on the bogie wheels loosened and came off. A new design with castellated nuts and cotter pins was designed by the coaster designer. He suffered a heart attack when he herd people died on one of his rides. Millwrights were running late and didn't fully inspect coaster from bottom floor that day where the nuts were later found. A huge problem that contributed was no one bothered to convert the German maintainence manual to English. Doh I think it almost bankrupt the mall. I also think it should have seeing how they tried to cut corners all the time. I don't blame the millwrights as much because they are kind of stuck between a rock and hard place too. 6am to 10am to do all inspections, repairs they can do and repairs needed such as welding repairs.

Yeah it would be great if welding engineers had a welding background. Big welcome to the forum Bryan! I'm sure you will have valuable advice to give members.

Dave

[jpump5]

I know that the engineers I’ve had the most respect for
are the guys who put themselves through school working
in shops or mills. By the time they get an engineering
position, they already have years of experience in the field.
Very capable, no BS guys. I suppose my not being an engineer,
I don’t fully understand the value of the young, top of the class,
no experience, engineers.

[Kevin Morin]

BTC:PS
in the past, (and that doesn't make it the 'only way') there were reasons for the educational method I'll remind our Forum about.

GM, and several other large (read world class huge mfg.s) used to educate most of their own engineers internally. They'd 'partner' with an engineering college in the Midwest and this is how their engineers were 'grown'.

First you would be accepted into the program and go to work in a job shop, welding shop, machine shop or even small foundry. Next, after a 1/2 year you'd go into a freshman program for engineering in a small 'cow college' with decent Math department.

That repeated for four to six years, until you graduated from the college and the small shops were willing to take you on full time- not subsidized. AND GM and other major corporations built some very well engineered products- ranging from one end of mfg'd products to the other as a result if this form of education.

So, my point is that having hands-on experience in the trades, makes for an engineer who is "in touch" with his designs and not designing "over passes that fall on the cars below".

In my experience building to engineering spec.s in PLC/automation systems; Automation Control subsystems for Oil and Gas process equipment; Welded Aluminum boats; steel buildings; (and) snow removal equipment repair and construction: Engineers are divided into two main groups.

First group is those who listen, learn and grow and work together with the trades and contractors to produce the best they can. The second group have "Engineer-itis" where the title is an unfortunate burden for anyone who's so unfortunate to have to work this group.

Sounds like you're on a path to be in the first group and that's a good thing in this old man's view.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

[William McCormick]

It would be FANTASTIC if some engineers had a welding background! Worked at a couple shops where it's easy to draw a blueprint showing how all the pieces go together. Then when building it there is no way to weld some of the pieces in because there is just not enough room to get at where the welds are needed. OK, get the foreman to take the blueprint back to the office to find a solution to weld the piece(s) in. Also worked at West Edmonton Mall. Yes, I welded on the Mindbender coaster at the very top. They have a welding shop for repairing amusement rides and all kind of things in the mall. They had an engineer that would design things and give the OK on certain jobs. One of the managers was looking at getting a big compressor lifted to the 2nd floor above the water park. Engineer designed an elaborate hoist system to lift the compressor and then put on a special dolly to move into place. I was the welding foreman and asked to provide some kind of time frame to build it and materials list so they could figure out an approx. cost. Instead I suggested using a zoom boom to lift it up since I've seen one in the water park before. They can drain the water if needed. I think my boss and others were almost speechless when I suggested the Zoom Boom. In the end the compressor was too much $$$ and not allowed to be purchased. I think the engineer was trying to milk them as much as possible. No idea how much the hoist design cost. Boss was a former ironworker and designed some things. Big problem was he thinks stuff can be built and put in place and then the engineer can approve it. Wrong!

That's how being the newest welder (2 J welders, 1 apprentice) but with the most experience I became the foreman. I had the authority to allow or disallow things the iron workers or welding shop did. An elevator was taken out of the office portion of the mall and they wanted to weld beams in so a floor could replace the hole from the elevator. The foreman at the time (super nice guy) said he needs to have a stamped and signed engineers drawing approving the beam addition. Boss said to go ahead. Not without approval. Boss comes back with a stamped blueprint but no signature. OK, we have a problem. Boss asks if will be strong enough and everybody agree's it is basically overkill. Current foreman then lays it out. Structural welding requires a stamped and signed approval. He welds it without that and they can take his J welding ticket away! Boss and especially one of the people above him (TOTAL IDIOT) are now pizzed with the welding foreman because he refuses to weld it. I've only been there about 3 weeks and boss asks if I would weld it. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place!!! Don't weld it, sayonara. Weld it and risk repercussions and pizz off current foreman. I agree to weld the big beams in and thankfully the foreman is not mad at me at all. In fact he really helped me getting the beams in and tacking them in place. Over the next few weeks the foreman went from being a "super star" getting everything welded up in record time to being questioned and confronted on just about every job he worked on. He then resigned from being foreman and I was asked if I wanted to be the foreman. Previous foreman stayed for a while but eventually quit because they hounded him about everything. 2 people above the boss were just -ricks!!! 1 of them was from Poland or somewhere and only got the job because he went to the same church as the mall owners. Claimed he was an engineer, millwright or something back in his country. Somehow borrowed 1 of the millwrights books to study and was allowed to challenge the J exam. He was a complete and total idiot and the reason I and many millwrights left the mall. The millwrights actually had a talk with him to stay out of their shop because too many were leaving and having to train new employee's on amusement ride requirements put them behind schedule. That was about 3 years previous and then he started going in their shop again. Since the Mindbender accident where 3 people died new rules were put in place for amusement rides that fell under the elevator and escalators act. 3rd party inspectors would come in and do ultrasound and mag particle testing on the rides. I got along with the inspector! He watched me do a repair on a bogie off the mindbender. I did a 6010 root and 7018 cap. Later when talking to a more senior and better engineer to get a repair procedure qualification. The engineer suggested exactly what I did without knowing what I did. The inspector was pleased and I felt good because I used my pressure welding knowledge on something non pressure but very critical to people's lives. The crash was caused because nuts on the bogie wheels loosened and came off. A new design with castellated nuts and cotter pins was designed by the coaster designer. He suffered a heart attack when he herd people died on one of his rides. Millwrights were running late and didn't fully inspect coaster from bottom floor that day where the nuts were later found. A huge problem that contributed was no one bothered to convert the German maintainence manual to English. Doh I think it almost bankrupt the mall. I also think it should have seeing how they tried to cut corners all the time. I don't blame the millwrights as much because they are kind of stuck between a rock and hard place too. 6am to 10am to do all inspections, repairs they can do and repairs needed such as welding repairs.

Yeah it would be great if welding engineers had a welding background. Big welcome to the forum Bryan! I'm sure you will have valuable advice to give members.

Dave

They should treat a rollercoaster, like a plane it probably takes as much abuse or more. Cotter pins for sure.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

[Welder Dave]

There is an almost identical triple loop coaster on the roof of a Hotel in Vegas. The Mindbender is the only coaster of it's type using the cotter pins! I believe the others use lock nuts but the torque has to be checked daily. Not converting the manual to English I think puts a lot of blame on the Mall and is absolutely stunning it was never translated. So is opening the coaster without the complete pre-ride inspection. Maybe training new Millwrights took time away? I don't blame the millwrights too much. Some of them took it real personal. Having worked at the mall I know the mentality of management. Get it up and running so we're not losing $$$$. Idiot that I left because of was always, "It must get done today"! How can you get 5 things done in 8 hours (they didn't pay overtime) when each one takes takes 2 1/2 hours or more?

Scary there were no real maintainence guidelines for amusement rides before the fatal accident. The millwrights kind of made their own which was mostly good. One of the huge support beams says RIP just above a dent in it! I agree should be treated like planes. You get 4G's or more and it puts a lot of stress on things and welds. They reduced from 4 cars to 3 to slow it down. I think 4 (1 ton each) produced over 6G's!!! It says on a wiki page but I'm too tired to look. Standing between 1 of the loops you can see the loop moves quite a bit. I help weld a new super powerful magnet type braking system on. I also climbed I think the 274 or so steps all the way to the top to do some welding repairs. I was most impressed with all the pipe bending. Not just for the main rail but the pipes the bogie's ride on.