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Thread: CWI certifying welders

  1. #1
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    CWI certifying welders

    I've been looking for a definitive answer to this question and it's either harder than it seems or I'm dumber than I look, but here we go.

    Can a CWI CERTIFY a welder without going thru an ATF? (Accredited Testing Facility)

    Say, an independent CWI is contacted by someone who needs a certification test performed, can he sign off on it (if the welder passes) and that welder rightfully say he carries an AWS Certification?

    I know the difference between a qualified welder and certified one, which is why I'm being specific as regards CERTIFIED.

    And maybe the codes make a difference. I generally am familiar with D1.1.

  2. #2
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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    NO.

    jrw159

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    Yes, they do this at my kids high school every year. CWI comes in and inspects and issues certs.
    Please dont mistake my enthusiasm for talent!

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    no,,,,

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontiac Freak View Post
    Yes, they do this at my kids high school every year. CWI comes in and inspects and issues certs.
    Unless that CWI is tied in some way to an AWS ATF then it is not tied to AWS.

    A little insight.

    https://www.aws.org/certification/Ac...TestFacilities

    jrw159

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    Re: CWI certifying welders


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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    [QUOTE=Cool Hand Luke;8720297]



    Say, an independent CWI is contacted by someone who needs a certification test performed, can he sign off on it (if the welder passes) and that welder rightfully say he carries an AWS Certification?



    this is the question we said no to. the answer is simply "no"

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    what's your procedure/plan for testing the weld coupons? visual,bend,x-ray?
    i.u.o.e. # 15
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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw159 View Post
    Unless that CWI is tied in some way to an AWS ATF then it is not tied to AWS.

    jrw159

    That's what I wondered as well. So then whatever lil card those kids would get at a high school test would simply be a qualification record, correct?
    Last edited by Cool Hand Luke; 10-08-2019 at 04:27 PM.

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    In canada no.
    You must test in a certified and credited testing facility. The process and weld procedure in question must be registered and approved.
    Then the testing must be witnessed and overseen by the licensed CWI.
    Companies have the right to do their own in house testing and qualifying but their process and procedures must be qualified and approved.
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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
    That's what I wondered as well. So then whatever lil card those kids would get at a high school test would simply be a qualification record, correct?
    That is correct.

    jrw159

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    A local community college did this as they advertised AWS welding certification tests, they supplied the test plate and equipment then did the guided bend test if they passed they got their "cert". They were charging $300 a test for this "service", needless to say when the people that bought into this took their "cert" to a local employer that they were trying to hired on at - they were told that is "useless". Sure it showed you passed that test but was there a WPS? How do we know you were the person that actually took the welding test? How was everything controlled during these test's? Needless to say there were quite a few "unhappy" people that paid for this "service" and they (local college) have never offered it again.

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    Quote Originally Posted by RideKTM350 View Post
    A local community college did this as they advertised AWS welding certification tests, they supplied the test plate and equipment then did the guided bend test if they passed they got their "cert". They were charging $300 a test for this "service", needless to say when the people that bought into this took their "cert" to a local employer that they were trying to hired on at - they were told that is "useless". Sure it showed you passed that test but was there a WPS? How do we know you were the person that actually took the welding test? How was everything controlled during these test's? Needless to say there were quite a few "unhappy" people that paid for this "service" and they (local college) have never offered it again.
    As an AWS CWI, I can provide a WPS and supporting PQR as well as a written Welder Qualification Procedure. I can retain and provide the actual test specimens along with a signed and stamped WQTR. In addition I may also provide a summary of the test that may include information pertaining to safety, additional skills shown during testing ect. I can also charge whatever the situation might command. Be it $30.00 or $3000.00.

    If this is for an individual welder seeking employment with a variety of employers, it is not much good. I am not, nor do I work for an AWS ATF. So in this case I would advise the welder not to go this route.

    Now, as an AWS CWI I can perform the same testing with the same documentation for a company that does not have the capabilities of testing their own welders and if done correctly, my testing will be no different in result than an AWS ATF. That is because I am going to do it all correctly just like they would. Here is the kicker. I am going to charge pretty much the same thing the AWS ATF will.

    Welder Qualification is not cheap to do when done right (AWS D1.1 or ASME requirements). There is more to it than just welding a couple of pieces together and putting it in a vice, then beating it over a piece of round bar with a big hammer.

    All that being said. Even if an independent welder goes to an AWS ATF for qualification they will still have to test at hire 8 out of 10 times, and that is best case numbers.

    jrw159

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    The only weld test that has any value is the one a company gives you before they hire you. Anything else is just a piece of paper. It won't get you on a job without another test by the company.
    If you're trying to get a cert for your own personal company, you may as well just pony up the bucks and get it done right.
    Last edited by TimmyTIG; 10-09-2019 at 11:01 AM.

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw159 View Post
    As an AWS CWI, I can provide a WPS and supporting PQR as well as a written Welder Qualification Procedure. I can retain and provide the actual test specimens along with a signed and stamped WQTR. In addition I may also provide a summary of the test that may include information pertaining to safety, additional skills shown during testing ect. I can also charge whatever the situation might command. Be it $30.00 or $3000.00.

    If this is for an individual welder seeking employment with a variety of employers, it is not much good. I am not, nor do I work for an AWS ATF. So in this case I would advise the welder not to go this route.

    Now, as an AWS CWI I can perform the same testing with the same documentation for a company that does not have the capabilities of testing their own welders and if done correctly, my testing will be no different in result than an AWS ATF. That is because I am going to do it all correctly just like they would. Here is the kicker. I am going to charge pretty much the same thing the AWS ATF will.

    Welder Qualification is not cheap to do when done right (AWS D1.1 or ASME requirements). There is more to it than just welding a couple of pieces together and putting it in a vice, then beating it over a piece of round bar with a big hammer.

    All that being said. Even if an independent welder goes to an AWS ATF for qualification they will still have to test at hire 8 out of 10 times, and that is best case numbers.

    jrw159
    That is an excellent explanation. A certification puts you on a national roster applicable for field work(Pipeline.highrise, construction, ect). A qualification is typically an in house approval for manufacturing purposes using highly refined techniques and proprietary designs subject to NDAs. Generally most inert gas welding must be done with special procedures without prequalified joints and relegated to shop work IMO. D1.2 has no prequalified joints and no available SWPS to work from.

    A qualification is only good in the shop you qualified in.
    Last edited by shovelon; 10-09-2019 at 11:48 AM.
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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    I fully agree with your statement, I am also a CWI (22 years now) but I know in this instance there was no WPS, the material came out of a "scrap" pile that a local steel company had donated to the college so there was no telling what grade of material or what the rolling direction was. This was a "open to everybody" opportunity all you had to do was pay the fee to take the "test". In my opinion this was more at the college making money than anything else, granted it would show if you could indeed pass the qualification test requirements but other than that it wouldn't be worth much. The CWI that was administrating of the test had just passed the exam less than a year at the time and probably thought this was a great idea to promote the college.

    I had a person ask me about all of it after he had paid and went to this-I told him in my opinion you got taken for $300. That's how I know there was no WPS or how things were handled - basically you got a piece of paper that stated you passed or failed.

    In the past I have even seen someone was interviewing for a job give me a welder qualification that showed they "failed" the test - I thought to myself did that person even no he failed?

    Or better yet I had a company welder qualification they proudly posted in the hallway of the office for everyone to see for AWS D1.1 that used ER4043 for the filler metal...........

    ())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw159 View Post
    As an AWS CWI, I can provide a WPS and supporting PQR as well as a written Welder Qualification Procedure. I can retain and provide the actual test specimens along with a signed and stamped WQTR. In addition I may also provide a summary of the test that may include information pertaining to safety, additional skills shown during testing ect. I can also charge whatever the situation might command. Be it $30.00 or $3000.00.

    If this is for an individual welder seeking employment with a variety of employers, it is not much good. I am not, nor do I work for an AWS ATF. So in this case I would advise the welder not to go this route.

    Now, as an AWS CWI I can perform the same testing with the same documentation for a company that does not have the capabilities of testing their own welders and if done correctly, my testing will be no different in result than an AWS ATF. That is because I am going to do it all correctly just like they would. Here is the kicker. I am going to charge pretty much the same thing the AWS ATF will.

    Welder Qualification is not cheap to do when done right (AWS D1.1 or ASME requirements). There is more to it than just welding a couple of pieces together and putting it in a vice, then beating it over a piece of round bar with a big hammer.

    All that being said. Even if an independent welder goes to an AWS ATF for qualification they will still have to test at hire 8 out of 10 times, and that is best case numbers.

    jrw159
    Last edited by RideKTM350; 10-09-2019 at 02:35 PM.

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    TimmyTIG said it all ! thats the way it is ! I still have my card stating D.1 D 1.5 most people have no idea what these really mean . And most things in AMERICA are way over engineered and welded , but that,s why we don,t have the catastrophic failure of buildings and bridges and other critical things that most countries still have today !

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw159 View Post

    Now, as an AWS CWI I can perform the same testing with the same documentation for a company that does not have the capabilities of testing their own welders and if done correctly, my testing will be no different in result than an AWS ATF. That is because I am going to do it all correctly just like they would. Here is the kicker. I am going to charge pretty much the same thing the AWS ATF will.


    jrw159

    So in this situation, what would be the advantage in the ATF vs CWI route?

    If using the same documentation, it seems like now the company is "certified" but once the welders leave that company, the cert stays with the company.

    For the company it's better it seems.

    So what would be the need for a company to test via an ATF?

    Sorry for all the questions, I'm just so happy to be getting clear answers in one place. 😁

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
    So in this situation, what would be the advantage in the ATF vs CWI route?

    If using the same documentation, it seems like now the company is "certified" but once the welders leave that company, the cert stays with the company.

    For the company it's better it seems.

    So what would be the need for a company to test via an ATF?

    Sorry for all the questions, I'm just so happy to be getting clear answers in one place. ��
    A welder's cert is generally good for 6 months, but the next company he goes to won't honor it without a re-test.

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
    So in this situation, what would be the advantage in the ATF vs CWI route?

    If using the same documentation, it seems like now the company is "certified" but once the welders leave that company, the cert stays with the company.

    For the company it's better it seems.

    So what would be the need for a company to test via an ATF?

    Sorry for all the questions, I'm just so happy to be getting clear answers in one place. 😁
    In addition to TimmyTIG's answer, in this exact scenario with me as the CWI the only difference would be the "Warm Fuzzy" of having it tied directly to AWS. But it is sad to say, not all AWS CWI's are the same.

    jrw159

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    Luke, i dont see this as so complicated in the working job reality. you get a copy of an aws cert w/ your personal name on it. you keep the back signed or stamped (no charge) w/in 6 mo. intervals, that shows your still actively welding, and keeps it current. it will serve you for a very long time.
    Last edited by 123weld; 10-10-2019 at 10:37 PM.

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    Re: CWI certifying welders

    Quote Originally Posted by 123weld View Post
    Luke, i dont see this as so complicated in the working job reality. you get a copy of an aws cert w/ your personal name on it. you keep the back signed or stamped (no charge) w/in 6 mo. intervals, that shows your still actively welding, and keeps it current. it will serve you for a very long time.
    It is not a bad thing to have but in reality all it will do in 98% of the cases is get you to the front of the line at the test booth. You will still have to pass that employer's test.

    jrw159

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