Miller 211 wiring clarification

[Willie B]

You will not find a 220 volt circuit to connect it to. I'm a bit oversensitive to that subject.
That said, Inverters are more tolerant of voltage drop, but I can't understand the obsession of new welder owners to undersize power supplies. You buy a new muscle Mustang, but want a lawn mower carburetor, WHY?

The rules for minimum wire size, and maximum breaker size address fire hazard. They do not address welder performance.

There is no such thing as too big a wire. Most welders you will encounter are equipped with the same plug. I have probably plugged 20 different welders into the same circuit. Why not install a circuit that'll be useful for numerous welders. You will be surprised, not a big difference in cost.

My strategy was once #6 copper, 60 amp breaker. Only in two cases was this arrangement not adequate. I once had a Dialarc, I now have a 300/300 Lincoln Idealarc. These needed more power.

I'm not going to live forever. I refuse to waste time & money upgrading my circuit each time I upgrade my welder.

[Broccoli1]

You will not find a 220 volt circuit to connect it to. I'm a bit oversensitive to that subject.
That said, Inverters are more tolerant of voltage drop, but I can't understand the obsession of new welder owners to undersize power supplies. You buy a new muscle Mustang, but want a lawn mower carburetor, WHY?

The rules for minimum wire size, and maximum breaker size address fire hazard. They do not address welder performance.

There is no such thing as too big a wire. Most welders you will encounter are equipped with the same plug. I have probably plugged 20 different welders into the same circuit. Why not install a circuit that'll be useful for numerous welders. You will be surprised, not a big difference in cost.

My strategy was once #6 copper, 60 amp breaker. Only in two cases was this arrangement not adequate. I once had a Dialarc, I now have a 300/300 Lincoln Idealarc. These needed more power.

I'm not going to live forever. I refuse to waste time & money upgrading my circuit each time I upgrade my welder.

Willie, what do you mean by this?

[ronsii]

Loosely translated = Go BIG or go home

[Willie B]

Willie, what do you mean by this?

Any power company I'm aware of provides 240 volt power.

That installing the minimum isn't always the least expensive. Go minimum, then switch welders, or even plasma, you might have to upgrade.

The rules regulating conductor size don't address voltage loss. sometimes, the transformer supplying the power is a long way off. Many inverters will function on a wide range of voltage, but amperage rises. If you begin with a 240 volt at no load circuit, and see voltage loss, you might see amperage rise above specified. A larger conductor might be needed to prevent this.

[Broccoli1]

"220, 221 Whatever it takes"

[Willie B]

If it comforts you, you annoy me also.

I've been an electrician 51 years. Most of the people who have tried to tell me they know more than I know, lead with "220". At that moment I can discount everything they say.

In conversation, Joe Bob uses the phrase, 220 I think little of it. Someone wants to justify connecting a welder using #14 wire, I get suspicious.

In my life, in my career, I can't easily separate, I have not seen a 220 volt power supply. If you assert yourself as more knowledgeable than me, show me where in this country you get 220 Volt utility power.

[Broccoli1]

If it comforts you, you annoy me also.

I've been an electrician 51 years. Most of the people who have tried to tell me they know more than I know, lead with "220". At that moment I can discount everything they say.

In conversation, Joe Bob uses the phrase, 220 I think little of it. Someone wants to justify connecting a welder using #14 wire, I get suspicious.

In my life, in my career, I can't easily separate, I have not seen a 220 volt power supply. If you assert yourself as more knowledgeable than me, show me where in this country you get 220 Volt utility power.

??

'tis just humor. 220, 221.


'taint no one trying to tell you they know more than you, not here at least.

[Willie B]

??

'tis just humor. 220, 221.


'taint no one trying to tell you they know more than you, not here at least.

I apologize, I overreacted.

[NHWelder]

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your insights.

My concern with running a larger (#6) wire was if there is a "vampire effect" by having such a large conductor. I have #6, You all are telling me that that is fine so I'll run #6, thanks for all of your inputs.

As for CB, not seeing the logic of running a 60 when Miller recommends 25 (but I don't know for certain). What's the positive of running a 60 vs a 25? What's the negative?


And while I'm new to this site and new to welding.....I'm not new to life. Sorry to offend by anyone by calling it 220 instead of 240. A ubiquitous term to most Americans, not meant to offend. I suppose a carpenter gets offended when you call a laminate counter formica, which is a copyrighted name.....which lots of us say. Same with aspirin, dixie cup and Hoodsie (for those of us in New England that grew up eating those little mini ice cream cups from Hood Dairy.

Point is, I was asking a legitimate and pertinent question and used a layman's term - I apologize, I'm sure I'll do it again (I never learn, just ask my wife!).

If I was being argumentative or confrontational I could understand you calling me out......but I wasn't.

Thank you for apologizing.....Apology accepted.


Now......back to our regularly scheduled programming.......

I want to run a 240V circuit for a Miller 211 with #6 wire.

What CB? 25A as per Miller or a 60A so I don't have to deal with upgrading the circuit if I get a bigger welder or a Tesla. Is a 60A too big to protect the Millerr 211?

Thank you.

[Willie B]

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your insights.

My concern with running a larger (#6) wire was if there is a "vampire effect" by having such a large conductor. I have #6, You all are telling me that that is fine so I'll run #6, thanks for all of your inputs.

As for CB, not seeing the logic of running a 60 when Miller recommends 25 (but I don't know for certain). What's the positive of running a 60 vs a 25? What's the negative?


And while I'm new to this site and new to welding.....I'm not new to life. Sorry to offend by anyone by calling it 220 instead of 240. A ubiquitous term to most Americans, not meant to offend. I suppose a carpenter gets offended when you call a laminate counter formica, which is a copyrighted name.....which lots of us say. Same with aspirin, dixie cup and Hoodsie (for those of us in New England that grew up eating those little mini ice cream cups from Hood Dairy.

Point is, I was asking a legitimate and pertinent question and used a layman's term - I apologize, I'm sure I'll do it again (I never learn, just ask my wife!).

If I was being argumentative or confrontational I could understand you calling me out......but I wasn't.

Thank you for apologizing.....Apology accepted.


Now......back to our regularly scheduled programming.......

I want to run a 240V circuit for a Miller 211 with #6 wire.

What CB? 25A as per Miller or a 60A so I don't have to deal with upgrading the circuit if I get a bigger welder or a Tesla. Is a 60A too big to protect the Millerr 211?

Thank you.

Either the 25 or the 60 would comply with code. I guess I'd install a 25 or a more common 30. If you change welders, buy a TIG, or a nice plasma, change the breaker then.
Code allows 200% of I1Eff, so 60 wouldn't be far off, but you don't need that big. No big thing to change later if needed.

[NHWelder]

Excellent! Thanks for the prompt response. I'll get on it this week.

This site is a font of useful information.

Willie B, I've seen your input on a few different threads, you are knowledgeable and a great resource.....Thank you