filler rod for 709M

[husq2100]

Hi all,

Ill be welding some 709M to a dissimilar material. Not sure what the other material is, Im trying to find out. I doubt it much above mild steel, maybe 1020? Its the flange on the end of my Land Rover front axle housing which the swivel ball bolts to. These flanges are friction welded to the housing and do have part of the coil spring seat MIG welded to it.

Im after recommendations for TIG filler rod. I believe 709M very similar to 4140.

https://www.voestalpine.com/highperf...18/03/709M.pdf

cheers
Serg

[Oscar]

Possibly Harris Super Missile Weld SMW-03, Hastelly-W AMS 5786 ERNiMo-3. Both are claimed to be good for dissimilar and 'hard to weld' steels.

[ironrail]

Does it have to be 709M? ASSAB 709M is not suitable for welding but can with certain precautions be repair welded.

[husq2100]

Does it have to be 709M? ASSAB 709M is not suitable for welding but can with certain precautions be repair welded.

I already have the material. If you click the link in my first post it gives all the specs. Here is what it states for welding:

"Parts should be welded in the hardened and tempered condition. Strength properties of the joint will not be the same as the base metal.
Preheat 300-400oC. Temper after welding to about 35-50oc below the recommended tempering temperature.
Filler metal: - FOX CM2-KB electrodes or CM2-IGwire.
For advice in connection with difficult welding, please consult our engineers."

[ironrail]

For advice in connection with difficult welding, please consult our engineers." I wouldn't count on an unknown internet source for this.

[husq2100]

For advice in connection with difficult welding, please consult our engineers." I wouldn't count on an unknown internet source for this.

whats unkown about it? My link and quote are directly from the supplier, they are the Australian agents for Bohler, who I bought the material from.

[husq2100]

Possibly Harris Super Missile Weld SMW-03, Hastelly-W AMS 5786 ERNiMo-3. Both are claimed to be good for dissimilar and 'hard to weld' steels.

I wonder if they are available to me (Australia) or an equivalent?

[husq2100]

So what is the recommended filler rod for 4140?

[Weld_]

Preheating to about 450° and ER70S-2.

[shovelon]

I wonder if they are available to me (Australia) or an equivalent?

Harris/Welco SuperMissileWeld is a variant of ER312. Many a tool and die weldor uses 312 for the high strength, and high ferrite level that resists cracking. There are off road chassis builders that weld 4130 with 312 for the superior wetting and high strength. Lincoln Electric used to market ER312 as "All purpose maintainance filler".

[husq2100]

Preheating to about 450° and ER70S-2.

Thank you.

[husq2100]

Harris/Welco SuperMissileWeld is a variant of ER312. Many a tool and die weldor uses 312 for the high strength, and high ferrite level that resists cracking. There are off road chassis builders that weld 4130 with 312 for the superior wetting and high strength. Lincoln Electric used to market ER312 as "All purpose maintainance filler".

Thanks mate. good stuff

[husq2100]

Just found this on the web, it states the same/similar GMAW wire as recommended in the specs from supplier:

Thoughts?

[husq2100]

Ok, Im a lot closer to having to do this, I have ordered the above filler rod - ER90S-B3

Is there a problem using this filler rod on a lesser material? I know the material im using to turn the added bit, but uncertain of the flange end of axle housing. It coud be anything from 1020, 1045 through to 4140 type material.

Am I better off using one of those dissimilar material rods like ER312 variant ?

[Welder Dave]

Voestalpine is in N. America too. They are distributors for Avesta among other brands.

[shovelon]

Ok, Im a lot closer to having to do this, I have ordered the above filler rod - ER90S-B3

Is there a problem using this filler rod on a lesser material? I know the material im using to turn the added bit, but uncertain of the flange end of axle housing. It coud be anything from 1020, 1045 through to 4140 type material.

Am I better off using one of those dissimilar material rods like ER312 variant ?

ER90S-B3 is a good a good match for any of those. But again you don't know what it is. No problem using it on lesser material like 1020. ER90 has a minimum tensile of 90,000psi. ER312 has a minimum tensile of some 100,000psi, so without conformation of the base I think I would default to ER312 personally as it is a no-brainer for me and I use a lot of it. I do TIG.

[husq2100]

ER90S-B3 is a good a good match for any of those. But again you don't know what it is. No problem using it on lesser material like 1020. ER90 has a minimum tensile of 90,000psi. ER312 has a minimum tensile of some 100,000psi, so without conformation of the base I think I would default to ER312 personally as it is a no-brainer for me and I use a lot of it. I do TIG.

Thanks for that,

While oxy kit shopping this morning I asked the sales guy about ER312, he had not much experience with it , can get it but doesn’t stock it. Their go to for dissimilar metals is ER309.

Any thoughts on that?

Regarding no problems using the ER90 on the other material, I’m not too concerned about out right strength, more so good bonding and no cracking.

[shovelon]

Thanks for that,

While oxy kit shopping this morning I asked the sales guy about ER312, he had not much experience with it , can get it but doesn’t stock it. Their go to for dissimilar metals is ER309.

Any thoughts on that?

Regarding no problems using the ER90 on the other material, I’m not too concerned about out right strength, more so good bonding and no cracking.

I personally don't prefer ER309 due to some cracking problems encountered doing motor shaft overlays with stainless for corrosion properties. It is meant for welding carbon steel to stainless steel as long as you know the bases. HarrisWelco SuperMissileWeld(ER312)solved the cracking problem and opened a whole world of solutions. But you can do some tests with the ER309 if the LWS can give you some samples.

[husq2100]

I personally don't prefer ER309 due to some cracking problems encountered doing motor shaft overlays with stainless for corrosion properties. It is meant for welding carbon steel to stainless steel as long as you know the bases. HarrisWelco SuperMissileWeld(ER312)solved the cracking problem and opened a whole world of solutions. But you can do some tests with the ER309 if the LWS can give you some samples.

Thanks again mate.

I have a factory flange cut off a bad axle housing same as mine. I’m using it for the turning dimensions and Pcd spacing of bolts to drill/tap my added piece. If I have a bit of 709m left over I’ll try and do a test run.

[Mike_L]

What about Hastelloy-W in this application?

If your LWS doesn’t stock 312 it’s not likely they would stock Hatstelloy-W or variant, but it’s worth a shot.

Adding: Hastelloy-W is good for welding dissimilar metals and is resistant to cracking, if I recall it’s tensile strength is around 110kpsi. Expensive though.

[shovelon]

What about Hastelloy-W in this application shovelon?

If husq’s LWS doesn’t stock 312 it’s not likely they would stock Hatstelloy-W or variant, but it’s worth a shot.

Adding: Hastelloy-W is good for welding dissimilar metals as well and is resistant to cracking, if I recall it’s tensile strength is around 110kpsi. Expensive though.

Looks like Hastalloy-W could fit the bill. Never used it myself.

[Welder Dave]

Most of the specialty welding rod suppliers have something similar to SuperMissleWeld that is close to 312. Usually available in smaller packages. Look for something with around 120,000 tensile and listed for welding dissimilar and tool steels. Here's one from Eutectic.

https://www.castolin.com/en-CA/product/tigtectic-680

[Mike_L]

Most of the specialty welding rod suppliers have something similar to SuperMissleWeld that is close to 312. Usually available in smaller packages. Look for something with around 120,000 tensile and listed for welding dissimilar and tool steels. Here's one from Eutectic.

https://www.castolin.com/en-CA/product/tigtectic-680

They have the same 680 filler in a MIG wire, anyone here used it or the TIG filler?

http://https://www.castolin.com/site...Tectic-680.pdf

[husq2100]

Just to close this thread out from my end, I ended up using the ER90s-B3 filler in 1/16 dia. Welds look ok, thats as much as I can say, only time will tell.