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Thread: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

  1. #26
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Have not called yet. The site I was on was called USA weld I think. Not HTP. Is that the right one?

  2. #27
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    yes, that is their website. HTP America = usaweld.com. Why it differs like that, I have no idea, lol.
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  3. #28
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Looks like water cooling puts me over 3grand. You guys are killing me. Iím sure I wouldnít regret it, but trying to pry the wallet open isnít going to be easy for me.

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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Everlast 250ex with water cooler is about 1500

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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    I'm in the exact same same situation looking for a welder. I'm building a 24' aluminum jet boat and need to do some finer welds on things like the fuel cells and console. Got a quote from Abby at HTP yesterday. They have units on a boat that will arrive early May. Been looking at used Syncowave 250's but the prices are high enough that it makes you seriously think about taking a chance on an Everlast. Best I have sound on a syncrowave 250DX is a 2014 for $2500. Some older cheaper ones too. So many polarized opinions on Everlast. Some saying they are great while others say a complete waste of money even for home use. The Duty cycle on the HTP looks really poor even though it has a 220 amp rating. You have to drop all the way to 165 amps to get a 60% duty cycle. Do you guys that have this machine find that to be an issue when working with 3/16 and 1/4" material?

    I have a cooler with my XMT304 that I was planning to re-plumb with tee's and valves so it could cool either the new tig or my mig. My cost with aswivel head watercooled torch, invertig221 and the pistol grip torch holder was $2795. Two questions I'm asking myself are: 1) Should I save the money and take a risk on the Everlast? 2) Do I step up to the Lincoln Aspect 230 ac/dc? It's a lot of cash to drop for something that I will never be using to make a profit...just a hobby. Curious to what you guys think.

  6. #31
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Quote Originally Posted by vtbassmaster View Post
    I'm in the exact same same situation looking for a welder. I'm building a 24' aluminum jet boat and need to do some finer welds on things like the fuel cells and console. Got a quote from Abby at HTP yesterday. They have units on a boat that will arrive early May. Been looking at used Syncowave 250's but the prices are high enough that it makes you seriously think about taking a chance on an Everlast. Best I have sound on a syncrowave 250DX is a 2014 for $2500. Some older cheaper ones too. So many polarized opinions on Everlast. Some saying they are great while others say a complete waste of money even for home use. The Duty cycle on the HTP looks really poor even though it has a 220 amp rating. You have to drop all the way to 165 amps to get a 60% duty cycle. Do you guys that have this machine find that to be an issue when working with 3/16 and 1/4" material?

    I have a cooler with my XMT304 that I was planning to re-plumb with tee's and valves so it could cool either the new tig or my mig. My cost with aswivel head watercooled torch, invertig221 and the pistol grip torch holder was $2795. Two questions I'm asking myself are: 1) Should I save the money and take a risk on the Everlast? 2) Do I step up to the Lincoln Aspect 230 ac/dc? It's a lot of cash to drop for something that I will never be using to make a profit...just a hobby. Curious to what you guys think.
    I haven't had an issue with the duty cycle yet and I do a lot of 3/16 and 1/4. I owned an everlast over 10 years ago the 210ext and the duty cycle was terrible on it. I don't know about the current everlast models but my impression with the one I owned was that they overrated its duty cycle. It seems that HTP may underrate there's at least in my experience.
    Lincoln 350MP
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  7. #32
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Quote Originally Posted by vtbassmaster View Post
    The Duty cycle on the HTP looks really poor even though it has a 220 amp rating. You have to drop all the way to 165 amps to get a 60% duty cycle. Do you guys that have this machine find that to be an issue when working with 3/16 and 1/4" material?
    I haven't done a whole lot of welding with it at full-bore, but remember that those numbers are @ 104įF. At "regular" temps, say 80-85įF, it should be a good amount higher. As for high duty cycles (60%) from the import welders, well some people have their doubts about those. If my Invertig 221 did 2min at 220A, I would be perfectly fine with it living up to the spec on the label, even though it's no where near 104įF right now. Any videos out there with a torture test on the import TIGs in the 200A class? If they can really do what they say and survive, then more power to them.
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  8. #33
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    and would you both agree that spending $2800 on an inverter and re-purposing my mig cooler makes more sense than buying a $2500 syncrowave with cooler built in?

  9. #34
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Quote Originally Posted by vtbassmaster View Post
    I'm in the exact same same situation looking for a welder. I'm building a 24' aluminum jet boat and need to do some finer welds on things like the fuel cells and console. Got a quote from Abby at HTP yesterday. They have units on a boat that will arrive early May. Been looking at used Syncowave 250's but the prices are high enough that it makes you seriously think about taking a chance on an Everlast. Best I have sound on a syncrowave 250DX is a 2014 for $2500. Some older cheaper ones too. So many polarized opinions on Everlast. Some saying they are great while others say a complete waste of money even for home use. The Duty cycle on the HTP looks really poor even though it has a 220 amp rating. You have to drop all the way to 165 amps to get a 60% duty cycle. Do you guys that have this machine find that to be an issue when working with 3/16 and 1/4" material?

    I have a cooler with my XMT304 that I was planning to re-plumb with tee's and valves so it could cool either the new tig or my mig. My cost with aswivel head watercooled torch, invertig221 and the pistol grip torch holder was $2795. Two questions I'm asking myself are: 1) Should I save the money and take a risk on the Everlast? 2) Do I step up to the Lincoln Aspect 230 ac/dc? It's a lot of cash to drop for something that I will never be using to make a profit...just a hobby. Curious to what you guys think.
    I can't support chinese product and keep my morals, so aside from considering that, you are exactly in the same situation. Hopefully guys will keep chiming in and help us decide what to do. My son is in his first year of vo-tech for welding, and I can justify some of it by having it available for him, especially since school is cancelled for the year. My first aluminum project is an upper deck/roof for my 24' pontoon. So with ya on the boats too!

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  11. #35
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Quote Originally Posted by vtbassmaster View Post
    and would you both agree that spending $2800 on an inverter and re-purposing my mig cooler makes more sense than buying a $2500 syncrowave with cooler built in?
    Whether or not it makes more sense depends on a lot of factors that you are considering. We don't know your criteria or thought process.
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  12. #36
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Don't waste your time or money on that off brand stuff. This is especially true for a dedicated tig welder. Any welding equipment I buy is good quality equipment that's going to have a good reputation, performance and support.
    With that said, my choice for the class of machine your looking for would be a Lincoln square wave 200. It's a solid stick welder as well as an outstanding tig unit.
    Jason
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  13. #37
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Does the lincoln sw200 still have ~10 seconds of non-adjustable post-flow?
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  14. #38
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Quote Originally Posted by daddy View Post
    I can't support chinese product and keep my morals, so aside from considering that, you are exactly in the same situation. Hopefully guys will keep chiming in and help us decide what to do. My son is in his first year of vo-tech for welding, and I can justify some of it by having it available for him, especially since school is cancelled for the year. My first aluminum project is an upper deck/roof for my 24' pontoon. So with ya on the boats too!
    Yeah, I totally get it...but I shamefully admit I just bought another Chinese welder. The reason was I am in the middle of building a new shop/home on a piece of property I've owned for 20 years and just to the point I'm getting the electrical dropped to the property. I am in to this project up to my eyeballs, it means more to me than anything in the world. I've been using an Everlast (i.e., green weenie) and I despise the company so much I have just wanted to get rid of it...it's not that it's been a bad machine, actually it's done most everything it's supposed to do for me. It is only a DC Tig machine though. My beef with Everlast is their service and support, and I think this forum displays it as well as any place on the net. I don't even need to say anything, it speaks for itself, in a bad way.

    I have wanted an HTP, and spoke with Jeff Noland a few weeks ago...some of the numbers are confusing between the single and dual voltage models of the 221. As an example, per their site the SV model requires 44.5 amps, where the DV model requires 36 amps. I know that is not entirely true as people run them on 30 amps circuits. My current home is limited to 30 amps. But the DV model has Power Factor Correction (PFC) to save power, but to me it seems like a large claim in the numbers they post. Jeff Noland says those numbers on the SV reflect stick where the DV reflects tig. I don't know how true that is, but all of these numbers are not to be trusted entirely as there's hypocritical numbers from most all companies on their machines and web sites. Sorting through it is painful.

    If you truly want an American machine, it seems you might be limited to a Miller. Even so they have Chinese parts in them I'm told, but I believe they are still made in America. Short of that the Lincoln Aspect 230 looks like an amazing machine, but my understanding is that it's made in Europe. And the HTP is made in Italy of course. As far as service and support, which is a big issue, my LWS will support both Lincoln and Miller if I buy from them, but they were bought out by Praxair about a year ago and the shop is entirely different today and I don't like the people there most of the time. There are only a couple of the old guys there and only a couple days a week. Prior they said they would supply me with a loaner if I bought a machine from them and it had a problem, but with Praxair I am not sure.

    I posted here about 2 years ago that Lincoln was coming out with a 230-250 amp machine, that was after exchanging some emails with Carl Hoes, a pretty well known Lincoln guy. He admitted with the loss of the Invertec 205-T they had a gap in their high quality inverters, since the SW-200 has some limitations (post flow, pulse, etc). Oscar just pointed that machine out to me recently, I didn't actually know it came out...while I think it could be a better machine than the HTP, it's also more costly. That is an amazing looking machine though.

    So look, we live in a world where much of the Government and large corporations bowed to China, and that's just the reality that we can't change too quickly. It is finally starting to change, and my guess is we'll never be as dependent on such a horrible country like China ever again. But in the meantime we can't entirely fight that. For me, being able to build a lakefront shop/home was more important. I've had to wait as I put my kids through school, and now I'm getting closer to retirement. I can always get another welder later, I don't do this for a living, it's just my hobby. So I pulled the trigger on the Primeweld 225. My concern with it was it doesn't handle stick very well, and that's something I wanted to have. Some people say they can do 6011 and 7018, but Primeweld doesn't actually say that in the manual. To Mike's credit he told me he will refund my purchase and pay for return shipping if I wasn't satisfied. It also has a 3 year warranty, shipping included, and that is the biggest complaint we see against Everlast, that people need to pay shipping both ways for service.

    I will be first to admit, the Primeweld doesn't include any of the fancy circuitry, but it does do square wave, the most common, and comes with a CK torch (I had to replace my green weenie torch), and a decent pedal, although I suspect the pedal is a Chinese knock off. The warranty, the people in the company, and the product were the decider for me. If I had my rathers I'd have a Miller Dynasty DX. But I'm not willing to sacrifice what I need to do on the shop/home I'm building.

    I feel your pain. I feel my pain. This pain is not going away anytime soon, it's gonna take some time for the US to ween itself off China. But it has started, especially with this pandemic, it's more in motion than ever.

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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Quote Originally Posted by daddy View Post
    Looks like water cooling puts me over 3grand. You guys are killing me. Iím sure I wouldnít regret it, but trying to pry the wallet open isnít going to be easy for me.
    BTW, you can get the water cooler later, but if you get the water cooled model it comes with a 20 torch, where the gas cooled models come with a 17. If you plan to upgrade it might make sense to order a gas cooled model with a 20 torch at a slight upgrade. That is if you have a 17 to use in the meantime. But the 17 doesn't entirely cover up to 220 amps, something to keep in mind.

    FWIW, HTPs water cooler is priced nicely, IMO. I see Chinese coolers for more $$$s, and the few models the green weenie company sells are as much or more. Same with the Longevity cooler.

    I'm gonna get an HTP cooler if I feel I need it for my welder, but for now I'm sticking with gas. I have a 26 torch, which is kind of cover up to the 225 amps of the new welder (when it gets here on Tues).

    Anyway, you can upgrade later, so that is about $500-$600 deferred cost on the HTP, something to keep in mind.

    They also have SV or DV coolers. For my current home, which I won't be selling I mentioned I only have a 30 amp 240v circuit (actually 230v, I've measured it), so in order to use a cooler I would need to run that off 115v so would get a DV cooler. My new shop will not matter, it's getting a 320 amp continuous service, and I'll be running a 200 amp panel for the shop and a 200 amp panel for the home.

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  17. #40
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Quote Originally Posted by daddy View Post
    I can't support chinese product and keep my morals
    Well you would not want a Miller, Lincoln or Esab then. So the HTP is your only choice then.
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Been doing alot of reading, and found a few reviews of lincoln 200's dead on arrival, claims they are made in mexico with chinese parts... HTP made in Italy and very high quality...Still doing my homework.

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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Thats what Im starting to think. (Meant to quote mechanic 416)
    Last edited by daddy; 04-18-2020 at 03:20 PM. Reason: Forgot to quote

  20. #43
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Buy the way I do have a HTP221 and like it a lot for low amp welding. But I do most of the tig welding with a Primeweld Tig 225ACDCP with a HTP water cooler and Ck 20 torch.
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Quote Originally Posted by daddy View Post
    Thats what Im starting to think. (Meant to quote mechanic 416)
    Then you need to start asking yourself...where will you get your tungsten? I just got a pack of CK tungsten that's labeled "Made In China". I'm sure my previous CK electrodes were "Made in China" also, I just didn't pay too close attention.

    Where will you get your tig filler? AFAIK, most all of it is made in China also...

    How about tig cups? I just got some CK alumina cups, "Made in China". You can get some Furick cups, but he might even import them, I don't know.

    Where will you get your gloves?

    Anyway, I feel your pain, but we also need to ask ourselves, is it worth going to such great lengths to try and support the very companies that have sold us out and started manufacturing their products in China?

    Who can we even trust anymore?

  22. #45
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Quote Originally Posted by mechanic416 View Post
    Buy the way I do have a HTP221 and like it a lot for low amp welding. But I do most of the tig welding with a Primeweld Tig 225ACDCP with a HTP water cooler and Ck 20 torch.
    George,

    Tell me, I saw mention from you a while ago that Primeweld could be changing their welders to include a plug for the water cooler, but AFAIK that hasn't been done yet.

    Is there any advantage to the plug being on the welder other than convenience in having a plug close to the welder at all times?

    Seems the power is pretty low on the water cooler, but without the plug still means having a 2nd line where one is welding, correct?

    I've never used a water cooled torch before, but like the idea of having a #20 that can handle up to 250 amps.

  23. #46
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Quote Originally Posted by mechanic416 View Post
    Well you would not want a Miller, Lincoln or Esab then. So the HTP is your only choice then.
    Not trying to muddy the water, but how can anyone be assured that HTP doesn't use any Chinese parts? I've never seen such a claim.

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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    I made the suggestion to the owner but haven't seen it happen yet. Yes a receptacle on the welder is a good thing because if you leave tihe cooler on all the time when you turn on the welder the cooler comes on also. Saves on replacing the power cable when you forget to turn on the cooler.

    I can bet there are chinese parts in there.
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  25. #48
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Quote Originally Posted by mechanic416 View Post
    Buy the way I do have a HTP221 and like it a lot for low amp welding. But I do most of the tig welding with a Primeweld Tig 225ACDCP with a HTP water cooler and Ck 20 torch.
    Why do you choose the primeweld over the htp if you have both?

    Nevermind, I clicked on your signature link, and see that you sell them.
    Last edited by daddy; 04-18-2020 at 05:27 PM.

  26. #49
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    Re: Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Quote Originally Posted by TraditionalToolworks View Post
    Not trying to muddy the water, but how can anyone be assured that HTP doesn't use any Chinese parts? I've never seen such a claim.
    I watched a "tear down" video where a guy who seems to know electronics takes apart the HTP, and comments on the build quality. He seemed real impressed. Lots of details that look like they could contribute to better reliability. Can't say there are no chinese parts, and I know I can't avoid all chinese products, but I've been on a mission since the 90's to avoid what I can. Not preaching, but it's important to me. I would love to see american manufacturing return to what it should be.

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  28. #50
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    Looking for advice on purchasing a new tig

    Lincoln manufacturerís equipment in several different countries. 13 or 17 different countries if I remember correctly.
    They manufacture welders in canada also. Thatís where my 250 idealarc was made. They manufacture welders in many other countries because they sell them there and it makes more business sense for them to make them there. They avoid costly import fees and taxes which can make it much less profitable to sell equipment there.
    Would I only buy a welder for the reason of where it is or isnít made? No. I prefer to invest money on quality products that give me value for my investment. I also own a Miller welder that was made in the USA and I donít live there.
    Last edited by snoeproe; 04-18-2020 at 05:46 PM.
    Jason
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