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Thread: Worm tracks

  1. #51
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Gotta pay to play.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    I agree that storing for 2 years in varying temperatures likely introduced moisture into the flux. Wire might not be rusty because Lincoln puts a graphite coating on the wire. Maybe baking it for several hours would help but that might be hard to do with a fibreboard spool. Should work fine with C-25 shielding gas. How clean was the steel you were welding? Could be a combination of things contributing to the worm tracks and porosity. See page L13 of the 2nd link concerning storage conditions. I suspect your wire is contaminated from improper storage. Keep the unused wire in the house where the temperature is more consistent. Dual-Shield isn't the best option for occasional welding where it takes month's to use up a spool.

    https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...1A85/c3126.pdf

    https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...ure/mc1578.pdf

    https://www.dryrod.com/technical-art...lux-cored-wire
    I find everything else stored there is dry as popcorn far+. Not saying it couldn't happen, but all other steel products remain shiny for ever there. I have the nagging suspicion the issue is either the light breeze, or i need a longer nozzle. Another thought, I'm using the regulator that came with the Miller 252 welder ten years ago. It works fine with MIG, but the high limit is 50 CFH.

    I've got a new toy I want to rebuild the bucket on. I'll do it indoors, see if it helps.Name:  410C.jpg
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    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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  4. #53
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    Re: Worm tracks

    You can get porosity on dual shield with too much gas, also.

  5. #54
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    Re: Worm tracks

    We mitigated all of our dual shield worm tracking issues running ESAB wire by switching to 100% CO2. Immediate difference. And that ESAB wire runs beautifully in all positions.
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  7. #55
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Quote Originally Posted by livefast1 View Post
    We mitigated all of our dual shield worm tracking issues running ESAB wire by switching to 100% CO2. Immediate difference. And that ESAB wire runs beautifully in all positions.
    Thanks for confirming my testing/findings.
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  8. #56
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Thanks for confirming my testing/findings.
    Yes sir, that is our experience at least. I believe the argon causes gas entrapment but that's just speculation on my end.
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  9. #57
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Co2? It's that simple?
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  10. #58
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Co2? It's that simple?
    No, it may not be the answer to your problem. But the percentage of CO2 does play a part as my empirical findings and livefast1's findings as well. If you look at the literature for your wire from Lincoln, it specifies only mixed gas, not straight 100% CO2. You can, of course, try it but there is no guarantee it will or will not have positive effects. At this point you either have to accept your spool of wire has indeed picked up moisture that you are probably unable to bake out, or the culprit t your issue has not been found. Remember, it's always the thing you don't think about [being an issue].
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  11. #59
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    No, it may not be the answer to your problem. But the percentage of CO2 does play a part as my empirical findings and livefast1's findings as well. If you look at the literature for your wire from Lincoln, it specifies only mixed gas, not straight 100% CO2. You can, of course, try it but there is no guarantee it will or will not have positive effects. At this point you either have to accept your spool of wire has indeed picked up moisture that you are probably unable to bake out, or the culprit t your issue has not been found. Remember, it's always the thing you don't think about [being an issue].
    Thank you for all your effort. At present I surrender. This stuff is too fussy. It seems each possible fix is a few hundred dollars, with no odds it'll help. I will try in an enclosed building with little or no breeze. Being honest, I doubt that was the source of trouble.

    Only time MIG behaved this way is when I forgot to turn gas on.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  12. #60
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Use that sh!tty wire and build you a wire baking oven .

  13. #61
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    Re: Worm tracks

    I ran a lot of dual shield wire on construction and in shipyards and ran self shielded wire as well and still do to this day. You can get them work tracks in both types of wire and as long as they aint real deep it isn't a problem. Most of em are only 1/32 inch deep and aren't inside the weld at all. What I found works for me is either turn up your wire speed a bit or urn the voltage down a bit. It works for me anyway, maybe it will work for you as well Good Luck

  14. #62
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Any progress or improvements in the past year?
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  15. #63
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcTan View Post
    Any progress or improvements in the past year?
    Last time I used it it worked fine. I have no good explanation. I usually weld outdoors. I live where I'm quite sheltered from wind, it is breezy on a day it's howling elsewhere. I set up plywood to shield from wind. One day good, another day not good.

    Cranking up gas volume, long stick out seem to help. They recommend 5/8 through 3/4, I have better luck with 1".
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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  17. #64
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    Re: Worm tracks

    How could moisture be an issue flux cored wire? Does it wick through the metal? Surly it cannot travel any appreciable distance through the end?

    Try clipping off 3 feet of wire before welding.

    Are you wiping/cleaning it as it comes off the reel?

    Does the flux have a shel life?

    The first time I used dual shield I noticed how quiet it ran and how noticeable it was when millscale was hit. Just a suttle but noticeable disruption. I was surprised since it runs so hot.

  18. #65
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    How could moisture be an issue flux cored wire? Does it wick through the metal? Surly it cannot travel any appreciable distance through the end?

    Try clipping off 3 feet of wire before welding.

    Are you wiping/cleaning it as it comes off the reel?

    Does the flux have a shel life?

    The first time I used dual shield I noticed how quiet it ran and how noticeable it was when millscale was hit. Just a suttle but noticeable disruption. I was surprised since it runs so hot.
    water molecules are much smaller than the size of the seam, for seamed sheath flux-cored wires. They can easily make their way into the flux, as many have seen.
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  19. #66
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    Re: Worm tracks

    I run a fab shop in Montana. We had a lot of problems with Lincoln elite 71 .045 wire. We had to do a pretty good job of weld prep to get away from the worm tracks. When we got on thicker material it really helped to preheat just enough to get the moisture out of the steel. My Brother runs another welding shop up here. He swithched from the Lincoln wire to Triple 7 made by Hobart. He works on a lot of old equipment, said he could weld over almost anything with out getting worm tracks.
    I bought a roll of the triple 7 and tried it out. What a difference it made. We work with all new steel in my shop and now we do very little weld prep. This triple 7 wire is amazing. Production has almost doubled getting rid of the Elite 71. I changed out a year ago and never looked back. I have always been a Lincoln guy thats all I would buy. Still do except for the Dual shield wire. If it is not a high production setting why don't you get rid of the wire and just weld it up with some good old fashion stick?
    Less things to worry about, no gas.

    Trapper

  20. #67
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Update:

    I have another thread going.

    Last weekend I was going crazy with Dual Shield birdnesting. I could run all the wire I wanted out into space, didn't mater if the lead was bent or straight. Strike an arc, within 30 seconds it birdnested just past the feed rollers. I probably cleared 50 birdnests. Threw away thousands of feet of wire, and got little or nothing welded.

    Amazingly, I was indoors with little or no breeze, and porosity, or worm tracks weren't a problem.

    I tried everything I could think of, took the liner out, inspected it, sprayed acetone down it & blew it out with compressed air.

    I know I shouldn't, but in desperation, I gave the roll of wire a 1/2 second squirt of WD40. That helped, I was able to weld a few minutes before a birdnest. In my search for replacement parts I came upon a "Jump Liner" that came with my Bernard gun. I installed that in the gun end, that helped more. I was able to run 1-1/2 hour before I ran out of wire.

    I went off to Maine Oxy. Young manager there informs me the wire I was using is made ONLY for 85/15 gas. I'm using 75/25. He sold me a roll of new Dual Shield made for my gas.

    I tried this, it works great! Purely a spray process, it lays down beautifully.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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  22. #68
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Glad you figured it out. Which Maine Oxy do you go to?

  23. #69
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcTan View Post
    Glad you figured it out. Which Maine Oxy do you go to?
    Rutland is the only one I know of. Over on the NH border you have Haun also. In my early TIG days I got some good advice there.

    It was at the beginning of the Dynasty days. I couldn't believe a lunchbox sized welder was better than Syncrowave. I bought a Diversion 180, the then manager at Airgas Bennington conned me into. In 2010, used Syncrowaves were going for $5000. I couldn't convince myself to do it. I then bought a Dialarc 250HF. It was a great steel TIG/ stick welder, & in its day, a great aluminum welder. Keep in mind, when it was built helium was the gas used. Your diesel wouldn't be much of a truck if you had to run it on gasoline. Manufacturers have scrambled trying to make welders that perform the way simple ones did when they had helium.

    I have used helium...AMAZING!
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  24. #70
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    Re: Worm tracks

    South Africa just became a power-house for helium production. Overnight billionaires, those gas rights/land owners.

    https://phys.org/news/2021-10-helium...rica-gold.html


    Hopefully it will ease up on the helium prices everywhere.
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  25. #71
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Update:

    I have another thread going.

    Last weekend I was going crazy with Dual Shield birdnesting. I could run all the wire I wanted out into space, didn't mater if the lead was bent or straight. Strike an arc, within 30 seconds it birdnested just past the feed rollers. I probably cleared 50 birdnests. Threw away thousands of feet of wire, and got little or nothing welded.

    Amazingly, I was indoors with little or no breeze, and porosity, or worm tracks weren't a problem.

    I tried everything I could think of, took the liner out, inspected it, sprayed acetone down it & blew it out with compressed air.

    I know I shouldn't, but in desperation, I gave the roll of wire a 1/2 second squirt of WD40. That helped, I was able to weld a few minutes before a birdnest. In my search for replacement parts I came upon a "Jump Liner" that came with my Bernard gun. I installed that in the gun end, that helped more. I was able to run 1-1/2 hour before I ran out of wire.

    I went off to Maine Oxy. Young manager there informs me the wire I was using is made ONLY for 85/15 gas. I'm using 75/25. He sold me a roll of new Dual Shield made for my gas.

    I tried this, it works great! Purely a spray process, it lays down beautifully.
    Now I'm even more interested to know what wire you were using, I know lincoln make at least one that can be used with 15-25% Co2, i've never come across one that is made for only 15% though.

    What wire did you end up with?

  26. #72
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Quote Originally Posted by ttoks View Post
    Now I'm even more interested to know what wire you were using, I know lincoln make at least one that can be used with 15-25% Co2, i've never come across one that is made for only 15% though.

    What wire did you end up with?
    Name:  Dual Shield.jpg
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    The designator (I'm learning, though slowly) is 71A75. Turns out the last two digits are gas. The former manager at Maine Oxy was quick to admit he didn't have a wealth of knowledge. He said KD Welding, a member here uses a ton of it. The old roll was 71A85.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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  28. #73
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Name:  Dual Shield.jpg
Views: 70
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    The designator (I'm learning, though slowly) is 71A75. Turns out the last two digits are gas. The former manager at Maine Oxy was quick to admit he didn't have a wealth of knowledge. He said KD Welding, a member here uses a ton of it. The old roll was 71A85.
    Lincoln's literature still says that the 71A85 is"Designed for welding with 75 - 85% Argon/balance CO2 shielding gas" so I would expect it would have still be good with C25, the one you have now is good for 25 or 100% Co2 instead of 15-25% Co2.

  29. #74
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    Re: Worm tracks

    Name:  cap.jpg
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    Autonomous TIG cap on rectangular tube.

    Name:  weave 1.jpg
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    I've got some cleaning up to do. It's a spattery mess.

    Middle picture is vertical up, I don't know why it shows horizontal.

    Both pictures are 71A85 a few years old, run with 75% gas.
    New stuff seems a bit less saggy, & thus far, no birdnests. Running 50 CFH, no issues with porosity or worm tracks.
    Last edited by Willie B; 10-23-2021 at 12:55 PM.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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  31. #75
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    Re: Worm tracks

    And it's autogenous.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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