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Thread: Fab School

  1. #51
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    Re: Fab School

    A forstner bit, and vacuum. no epoxy. Otherwise the step portion is small enough to be creative and not be a time sink. Could be a weldless install. Note: There is not much room to drill or screw the underside on the channel with balusters installed.

    Mounting into the top of wood i sometimes tie onto the riser. That is a short run, i presume tied into a wall at the top?

    Clear the area while working, especially if installing balusters on site. Round bars roll....

    Good luck
    Last edited by tapwelder; 08-25-2021 at 12:39 AM.

  2. #52
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    Re: Fab School

    A tread over ten inches will not allow you to have two verticals per tread you need three that can change the price a bit.

    But this is what I would create with a deep dado.

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    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

  3. #53
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    Re: Fab School

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    A forstner bit, and vacuum. no epoxy. Otherwise the step portion is small enough to be creative and not be a time sink. Could be a weldless install. Note: There is not much room to drill or screw the underside on the channel with balusters installed.

    Mounting into the top of wood i sometimes tie onto the riser. That is a short run, i presume tied into a wall at the top?

    Clear the area while working, especially if installing balusters on site. Round bars roll....

    Good luck
    You do not have to use the Forstner bit for strength at all, it is just a way to do it if you are stuck to one kind of install. You can even have a few of the flanges not seating all the way and it will be a solid rail. The rail cannot really bend because each step tries to pivot at a different pivot point which makes the rail solid as long as you are holding it down very well.

    If I was making that rail tomorrow I would probably mount all my verticals to the step and then lay the rail on them level them and screw them in. And if I was going to do that I would change my plan a bit. I would drill through the flanges on an angle perpendicular to the earth's surface so as I tightened them I would not pull the verticles over on an angle. Just some food for thought.

    Some guys drill the metal verticles on an angle and then use a finish drywall type screw to mount them to the floor. I have done that when I had no other solution. It really does not look bad because you can sink the head to a point it does not stick out by just countersinking the hole a little bit.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

  4. #54
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    Re: Fab School

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post

    Mounting into the top of wood i sometimes tie onto the riser. That is a short run, i presume tied into a wall at the top?

    Good luck
    Mounting the newell

  5. #55
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    Re: Fab School

    Thanks to William and Tapwelder.

    To clarify my project, the top is to be steel cap rail not wood. So I think I will have to weld verticals to 1” x 1/2” channel that goes under the 1 3/4” molded cap. Maybe that is unworkable (?).

    The upper end will dead into a wall so a plate with lag bolts would hold that.

    So I’m still trying to figure out securing the verticals in the holes and anchoring the lower end post to the stair tread.

    I suppose I could use hanger bolts with tapped vertical, weld small flange at angle on top of verticals, then run screws through flanges into underside of channel. Lots of work! What do you think?
    Burt
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  6. #56
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    Re: Fab School

    Too complicated, are your pickets round or square?

    The one I did was square, I did about 45 linear feet of it.

    Weld the railing like normal to the top rail, you'll need three pickets per tread,

    If they're round, just drill a hole in the treads, chamfer the bottom of the 1/2" solid round so it'll go in the hole easier, the post at the bottom needs a baseplate, just put crews into the bottom tread to secure it

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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  8. #57
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    Re: Fab School

    Don't need anything but friction to hold the pickets in the holes, if they're square, you'll have to get a hollow chisel mortising bit and use that to make a square hole

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  10. #58
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    Re: Fab School

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan23 View Post
    Don't need anything but friction to hold the pickets in the holes, if they're square, you'll have to get a hollow chisel mortising bit and use that to make a square hole

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    If you make the rail perfect and drill the holes exactly both in diameter and in the placement you can do that. But if you try to wrestle the rail into place it is a mess. I had to put some screws on an angle through a few verticles and into the floor to hold a rail that was done poorly by someone else to hold it down because he tried to make it meet the holes in the floor that the verticles did not line up with. His holes were sloppy and the rail had a bow in it from welding.

    If the verticals are going to be welded to the top rail or top channel already then I would do the Forstner bit or square drill bit, and I would put a couple of holes on an angle through the vertical and into the floor to screw some of them down. You can do the newel pole like that as well even if it isn't mortised into the tread, and is a decent diameter or decent-sized square.

    They have stuff like this too, https://www.stairsupplies.com/produc...SABEgI49vD_BwE

    If you can get to the underside you can just put a bolt up into the newel post. I have a round plate moulding welded to rail and underneath I have a 5/8" bolt threaded into the newel post. It is mad-strong. Comically strong a couple of people wanted to give it a push or pull because they knew it was going to wobble you could see their face when it just does not move. They doubted how hard they had pushed it and did it again. And then asked how it could be so strong.

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    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

  11. #59
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    Re: Fab School

    Ok guys, new opportunity.

    Customer wants a short (8’) level rail with cathedral pickets similar to Phil’s outstanding rail in other thread.

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    She doesn’t want the knuckles, just straight pickets. I plan to have a local shop bend the pickets since they are set up to produce consistently.

    The top rail will be 1 1/2” x 1” tube. The bottom of the pickets will be on a 1 1/2” x 1/2” flat running on the floor (to cover where the current wood pickets are).

    So I appreciate any help/suggestions.
    Burt
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  12. #60
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    Re: Fab School

    Quote Originally Posted by wb4rt View Post
    Ok guys, new opportunity.

    Customer wants a short (8’) level rail with cathedral pickets similar to Phil’s outstanding rail in other thread.

    Name:  F8C00826-6781-43FD-BCCF-739DAE85715F.jpg
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    She doesn’t want the knuckles, just straight pickets. I plan to have a local shop bend the pickets since they are set up to produce consistently.

    The top rail will be 1 1/2” x 1” tube. The bottom of the pickets will be on a 1 1/2” x 1/2” flat running on the floor (to cover where the current wood pickets are).

    So I appreciate any help/suggestions.
    You just make a jig and each will be the exact same. That is the fun of making railings that are not just straight. You can make a jig in minutes. This jig in the movie, I made in less than ten minutes.



    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Last edited by William McCormick; 09-04-2021 at 01:01 AM. Reason: Fixed URL error
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

  13. #61
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    Re: Fab School

    It will be interesting to hear about you experience, if you send it out. Folk are crazy busy around here. Probably be 5 month before i could get something like that back. Study it some more. As William pointed out a jig and a gauge will help knock them out. 1/2 is easily bent cold and with minimal mechanical advantage.

  14. #62
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    Re: Fab School

    My railing was 5/8 square, I bent them cold.

    I used the harbor freight bender with an air over hydraulic cylinder to make tepeabke bend. Don't send it out IMO, it's easy.

    I'll look for a picture of the bending set up

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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  16. #63
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    Re: Fab School

    If you make them you may be able to use the existing holes. A solid strap would work and ease installation, but could collect dirt and make cleaning difficult.

  17. #64
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    Re: Fab School

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    Folk are crazy busy around here...
    My kid lives just outside Nashville (moved there a little over 4 years ago). I have been blown away by the amount of construction & house renovation (as well as inflation of the housing market) that has taken place in the last 8-10 years. Crazy money; and it seems lots of money being spent for the modern, clean line like the cathedral pickets, etc. and no end in sight for the people willing to pay it.
    Dave66
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  18. #65
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    Re: Fab School

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan23 View Post
    My railing was 5/8 square, I bent them cold.

    I used the harbor freight bender with an air over hydraulic cylinder to make tepeabke bend. Don't send it out IMO, it's easy.

    I'll look for a picture of the bending set up

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    I am interested in seeing some pics of the air over hydraulic set up on the HF bender.
    Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.

  19. #66
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    Re: Fab School

    I've got a cheap 10 ton tubing bender that uses a long bottle jack and has one. It's so slow I never use it... much faster by hand in my case...
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

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