Taking pride in your work doesn't always equate to be being able to charge more because it took you longer. If you're getting a lot of push back, like you say, maybe you need to re-evaluate your prices. Don't guess what a box store charges. If the box store railing would work, why didn't they buy it? $100/ft. sounds a little high to me, 5-1/2 times material cost. There are members on here who specialize in hand rails that would likely have the best idea what they should cost.

 

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1) a lot of people unemployed right now willing to work cheaper. supply and demand control prices. if you want $1000. and your competitor bids $600. who is average person buying from ?
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2) hydraulic ironworker can be 5 year lease and used to be about $300. a month and you cannot compete with a shop with a ironworker if you dont have one. literally they can cut, punch holes 10x faster sometimes 20x faster. to lesser extent a mig welder can weld faster that tig or stick....... just saying if you take 10 hours and other shop takes 3 hours cause of better equipment its hard to compete on fabrication. those premade handrails are from same internet places selling hand railing supplies but again if bought by the ton they might be 1/2 price of a very small order. shipping also usually cheaper when shipped in larger amounts
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3) there are places on internet where you can buy hand railing and supplies with bars with holes spaced already punched and get fancy bent twisted items. literally you buy metal by the ton it might be 1/2 price. just saying it can be very hard to compete with a competitor with better equipment and buys in bulk at much cheaper prices

 

Call around and see what the other shops are getting per foot for custom made handrails.

 

WN TomB I appreciate your input and I understand an ironworker can do the work of 10 men and save a lot of time. But on most handrail jobs an ironworker isnt really used of you are using the materials I listed above. You cant cut tubing on an angle that I’m aware of with a ironworker. You can shear/cut tubing with an ironworker if you are making square 90 degree cuts and have a shear die for that particular size tubing but that’s about it. The iron worker comes into play when you have to make base plates and you can punch the holes vs drilling holes or if you’re shearing bar I’ll give you that.

And to respond to Welder Dave, I understand that taking pride/quality work doesn’t always equate to being able to charge more, that being said I only do work to the best of my ability and if that means spending an extra hr here or there in prep or cleanup than I can live with that. But nothing goes out the door unless it’s 110% and the work would suit me if I was a paying customer. So if customers wanna save money and cut corners and want me to halfa## it then I shut that down real quick. I don’t need people out here picking apart my work. So I do charge more because of the quality I turn out. But at the end of the day my work isn’t any higher than what most hacks around here charge, I don’t have a problem getting beat by them over $50 lol. What blows my mind is when people wanna compare custom handmade work to somethin that’s cheap and mass produced (Lowe’s/Home Depot kits) They are not even in the same category. Champagne taste on a beer budget is what I notice most people have in mind when it comes to what they want vs what they wanna pay.

 

If you think your price is justified then why are your questioning it? Maybe someone else does the same quality for less money? Maybe someone else has a special jig that makes the job faster or a production bandsaw that cuts bundles of 12 posts at a time? I know a trailer shop that bundle cuts tubing all the time.

 

I’m not trying to justify anything I was just asking what the going rate these days for handrails were. I have two 5’x10’ siegmund 3D fixture tables along with about every tools and machine you would ever need to fabricate with so efficiency isn’t the problem. Besides if I learn or get set up to do somethin faster I don’t pass that savings onto a customer. That would dumb on my part. Once again I’m not trying to compare myself to “everyone else”. I’m talkin about store bought crap.

 

I’m not trying to justify anything I was just asking what the going rate these days for handrails were.

Believe I can answer this question for two areas I frequent. I am not a fabricator, just a guy that likes to fabricate. Been asking allot questions about handrails since I have the clubhouse and my residence to do. In SW Missouri near a major tourist location, at least one welding shop that accepts handrail jobs charges $73.00 per foot, built, powder coated (out sourced) and installed.....non union shop. They use King for their prepunched channel. At our main residence near major midwest city, going in price for basic handrails start at minimum $100.00 per foot.

My metal supplier told me he use to build handrails, but quit. Too much pushback on price and they did not want the hassle.

Dunno if that helps, trust it did not hurt

 

Well if you need 100/ ft to make it work, then that is what you need. If you charge 60, then you need to crank out high volume, otherwise tool maintenance and consumables will catch up. Most folk(side job, no insurance no workers comp, or irs documentation...etc.) don"t even know it, just see 3000 bucks for a 50 feet of rail and never estimate the time it takes to build, install, paint, an extra day or 2 to correct something, most folk need another hand too. It just becomes work to work in you cannot crank out the volume at that rate. It also will take/keep you out of contention for quality jobs.

You should be doing cart wheels when somebody wants powder coat. Offer it as standard. The only advantage to you painting is turnaround time, then you are giving you time away for less dollars. Push back is good. You don't need every job nor do you want every job.

You cannot estimate a custom job from material cost. Often, jobs with low to zero material cost have the highest income yield for me. I use to bid 5 times material... that was lazy and while you won't loose dollars it rarely compensates you for the worth of the job.

I would say, stick to you pricing or go up or offer more than your competitors and find clients who will pay for your product. I am not saying I know what you market will allow, but if it does then keep prices up.

There are other things to do besides rails, let the $60/footers purge themselves.

Good luck

 

Just to look at numbers I will assume all figures in the following analysis.

20 foot railing assuming 40" height will require 40 feet of 2" square tube. It will also require 60 vertical balusters totalling 200 feet of 1" square tube.

This number can obviously be expanded for larger jobs but once material prices are accounted for will account the material cost for the job.

Assuming $5/foot of 2 inch tube and $3.80/foot of 1" square tube, total material cost would be $960. (Note these numbers were pulled from an online retailer, local price varies)

We are currently at $48 per foot before we build anything.

Let's assume by using gang cutting, jigs and best practices all of the vertical balusters can be cut in one hour.

Setup and jigging the whole assembly will likely take another 1-2 hours we will say 1.5 hour for argument sake.

Welding will be the time consuming part. let's assume 4 minutes per baluster times 60 is 4 hours.

Installation will be 1-2 hours not accounting for drive time or special installation concerns. 2 hours will be used for final calculations.

Total 8.5 hours

If your shop rate accounts for consumables, overhead, and paying yourself let's say $120/hour

Total time cost $1020

This brings the total cost of a 20 foot railing to $1980 or $99/foot.

I'm not here to assume your material cost, labor rate, how fast you can build something I have never built or tell you how much money you should make. But after going through this exercise in my head. I don't think your rate is far off base, If anything it may be too low. Of course if no one wants to buy it that is another problem.

 

And how often is designing taken into account and knowledge to get the job done. Ask a designer for a plan... price per foot just doubled. Every rail requires designing and install considerations, very often done by the fabricator without compensation. Hire an installer who thinks they can do it or "looks easy enough", price goes up and you will have to return to straighten the rail. Hire an installer with skill and pay 'em with a smile..

 

Most store bought railing is 16 ga. It looks the same as 11 ga. but is cheaper. They are beating you badly on materials. Another way to look at it is your custom building a standard railing that you can buy for much cheaper. You need to find out how to use the cheaper railing and make it look good. I only custom build what needs to be built custom. My powder coat price is higher than I can buy railing locally that is already powder coated so I know where you're coming from. You have to decide if you want to make money or be proud. You make more money by getting jobs.

 

point is many shops change design and other things for cutting costs. for example
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1) for example not use tubing if solid is cheaper per pound and easier to cut, etc. looking at materials and can anything be changed to cut costs
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2) look into saving time like using a ironworker, magnetic drill or even a cnc mill to make parts much faster. they look at getting shop equipment even if expensive if math says its cheaper by the end of the year or after 5 years, sometimes shop equipment is leased rather than purchased so its a smaller monthly bill rather than hugh expense upfront. thats where Math is often the most valuable tool.
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3) buy in bulk and manufacture in bulk to save costs on materials and setup time. literally cheaper by the ton or cheaper making 10,000 parts at a time
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really some places spend a lot of time designing for manufacture and they can easily sell for 1/2 price and got nothing to do with employee wages usually. they just doing things smarter. its like furniture maker cutting parts one at a time using crude tools compared to shop using cnc equipment making parts in bulk at 1/4 the price even factoring in equipment costs

 

You also need to understand America’s Wal-mart/IKEA mindset. My experience is most people, particularly the younger ones, don’t know quality or care. They want a railing now and not at all concerned about 5-10 years from now. They want the lowest cost because they expect they will either move, die, or want something new by then.

 

I charge a Fair bit more than you per foot, and my stuff is all custom. I do all my own bending, twisting, forging. I will order stuff from King when the customer requests it, but prefer my own. I almost always get pushback from the customer that the prce is too high, but they always buy it. I have tried raising my prices to cut down on volume of work. That didn’t work either.

 

$100/ foot here minimum. Especially if they want twisted vertical pickets
Can’t do them for any cheaper than that.

 

Thanks for the replies everyone, I’ve been researching this subject quite a bit and if anything $100/ft on average is pretty cheap compared to what I’m seeing. Most places are $125/ft for the most basic stuff and that’s straight runs at that, when they get into steps they go up quite a bit. Now I think that it’s crazy stuff cost that much these days but it is what it is. I’m just gonna keep bidding them at around $100/ft and if I get them great, if not we’ll then on to the next thing I guess lol. At the end of the day I gotta turn a profit.

 

You're not in business as a hobby. You have to make money on shop being there, material, parts and running. And of course insurance. Contrary to what people think, stuff ain't free.

 

At 100 a foot for standard railing I don't even break even. (that's what I used to charge)

Railing is a ton of work. Site measure, drawings, fabricating, taking to the powder coating, picking it up from the powder(without scratching) and than installing.

Ive been charging 150 a foot lately for standard railing, and if someone says its to much then I don't do the job. If you aren't going to make any money on a job, whats the point? If someone can do it cheaper, good for them. No point in competing with a price if its just going to cost you money in the long run.

I also do a 1250 minimum.

 

OK, how much was the price on THIS handrail job?? (I have no idea,,,)



Shickel Corporation
It was great to stop by the Shickel Corporation in Bridgewater, which provides design, fabrication, and installation of custom, high-quality metal products on sites all around the Mid-Atlantic. I got to see firsthand one of their latest projects — handrails for the House Chamber floor in the U.S. Capitol.

Touring Shickel Corporation's plant in Bridgewater

I just thought this was interesting,,, Hmmmmmmmmmmm,,,

 

You and I have the same congressman, Ben Cline. Shickel Corperation is a great fabrication company. I’ve been in heir facility a couple times, once when needing a part machined for a woodworking machine. I’ve toyed breifly with the idea of seeing if they might need a part time welder after I finish next semester at welding school.

 

In my experience Since it is gov’t. The minimum wage plus fringes is set. One would easily be disqualified for bidding too low or be miserable if you landed it. Paper work and specifying the role of your employees and staying within the role…. On site you need a floor sweeper and an installer/helper and welder… different folk.

 

I don't agree with your materials cost. I mean your doing railings, not structural beams.

You say 20 feet of rail needs 40 feet of 2" tube. How?

At 4 feet per post and even at an extreme spacing of 4 feet, that is 6 posts. That is 24 feet. At 5 feet is 20 feet of posts. So your blowing your materials cost through the roof.

If your not going to be honest in your own quoting, your never going to be acceptable with why your customers don't believe that is a good value.

When I did railings, there is no reason to go above 1 1/2" posts ever unless your building a tall fence, gate posts, or a special anchoring area. Generally speaking 1" posts and 1/2" Sq solid is standard. So if your comparing quality, standard quality has been around for a hundred years.

Also, just because you have fancy jig setups and higher quality designs, contractors want what they want. If you had 10- $100k robots building your railings, that won't justify railings at $750 per foot.

It seems like your selling good enough to stay running, but at the end of the day. If you went out of business or broke your arm, would any of them care?

I shifted my business away from jobs that $10 workers can do with a harbor freight welder with a can of bondo can do. I have made a lot more money and never looked back.





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I shifted my business away from jobs that $10 workers can do with a harbor freight welder with a can of bondo can do. I have made a lot more money and never looked back.





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Exactly,

 

Dug up an old thread to advertise your business...