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Thread: purchasing a tig welder

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    purchasing a tig welder

    Hey guys i'm looking at purchasing a Tig welder for my garage. Some back story i have 12 years experience tig welding aluminum and s/s's using dynasty 300's and then 350's with lots of good things to say about the machines..... However their price range is well beyond my reach which has led me to the Everlast brand. looking at the machines themselves my price range puts me into the 200DV and the 210 EXT which i would probably upgrade with a water cooler/torch. Is the EXT worth the extra money or would i be better off saving the cash. I also have concerns with longevity and service support as i have seen some very negative reviews of these though i try to take that with a grain of salt as there is very positive ones also. Does anyone have experience with the machines lasting longer than just their warranty period? do they compare to miller's? any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

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    Re: purchasing a tig welder

    Quote Originally Posted by micweld View Post
    Hey guys i'm looking at purchasing a Tig welder for my garage. Some back story i have 12 years experience tig welding aluminum and s/s's using dynasty 300's and then 350's with lots of good things to say about the machines..... However their price range is well beyond my reach which has led me to the Everlast brand. looking at the machines themselves my price range puts me into the 200DV and the 210 EXT which i would probably upgrade with a water cooler/torch. Is the EXT worth the extra money or would i be better off saving the cash. I also have concerns with longevity and service support as i have seen some very negative reviews of these though i try to take that with a grain of salt as there is very positive ones also. Does anyone have experience with the machines lasting longer than just their warranty period? do they compare to miller's? any constructive feedback would be appreciated.
    The EXT is definitely worth the extra money and are in line with the Dynasty's on performance and features. I'd even recommend the PowerTIG 350EXT if you are looking for something similar to what you had, and a quarter to third of the price most likely.

    Concerns about longevity? With the longest warranty in the business? People have tried to demean the warranty for a long time, saying we wouldn't last long enough (12 years ago we started the 5 year warranty), or that we wouldn't stand behind it. If we didn't stand behind our warranty, we'd be sued and out of business. Everything breaks. People are human, and there are always cracks in the system.


    But people who say that we don't offer good support, usually do one of several things, or a combination of them.
    1) They go online blaming the unit before they read the manual, or call tech support. They for some reason use the phone as a last resort. They'll email and want a full resolution over email and refuse to use the wonder of a cell phone. Service crawls via email. Some are self proclaimed misanthropes, others are but don't realize it.

    2) People leave their unit sitting in a box (and this happened just the other day, but has happened time and time again) for 4 years before trying it out. Something goes wrong and they want us to cover shipping since it "was new" or just had an hour on it. We stand behind our warranty. It is printed on our website for all to see, and copy down.

    3) A company buys a new welder from us, but their top "employee" despises the fact they didn't get the company to spring for a 10k machine. So they intentionally abuse and damage the machine. This has happened time and time again. Even though it may operate slightly different (but properly) than the machine they wanted, they'll tell their boss something is "wrong" with the machine. Fortunately, since we've stated this before, many bosses are now getting wiser, and it a much less common issue. I've had bosses tell me that this is what they suspected and listened in on the conversation, and things suddenly change.

    4) People often try to blackmail when something does happen. They'll send letters saying, "well I will go on Welding Web if you don't send me a new unit, and talk bad about the machine."

    5) They don't read the warranty terms. They are in black in white on our website, and under the tab at the very top that says "warranty". Our warranty is similar to the other brands in terms. But they will say it isn't...but it is.

    6) They get mad at having to ship a unit back. This is the standard statement in Miller and other's warranty as well. We cover parts and labor. You cover shipping AFTER the first 30 days, which the first 30 days cover shipping both ways, and comes with an additional satisfaction warranty. If something is wrong, send it back for a refund if that is what you prefer. Or send it in and we'll cover the warranty and shipping during this time. FWIW the first 30 days is the critical time during a warranty. For customers that use their machines that is. If something is going to go wrong, most of the time it does it then. Some people equate this with "lack of service" or "not standing behind our product". No we sell a unit for a lower profit margin and a third of the price. Budget a little more to spend in reserve for the money you save, in case something does happen, which, of course, nobody wants, but reality is this site is full of all major players here with problems with their units. We are not alone.

    7) Believe it or not, some people don't want to take the offer of replacing their own part to save on shipping. Our units have been for some time nearly all plug and play on parts. Most repairs if the user is qualified can be done with simple tools and takes 30 minutes or less of your time.

    8) A small thing is perceived to go wrong, but the operator is never wrong. Or at least this is the most common issue we face. We get calls saying "There is something wrong with your machine I bought". First it is "your machine" that is a signal word. Instead of "my machine", they automatically signal that they are already in their mind sending the unit back. No person likes to be told they are the problem. We have tried a multitude of ways. Some people will be offended no matter how we do it. I frequently have customers that say "I've tried all the settings", when I attempt a diagnosis. They'll say "Something is wrong with the unit"...but 1) have not read the manual 2) already have the unit boxed up. But when you say you've tried "everything", more than likely the problem is staring you in the face and you didn't read the manual. The other day I have a person tell me he had been welding 30 years and shouldn't need to have to read the manual. He was stubborn about it. I finally told him I could not help him unless we were on the same page in terminology. He finally relented, and found out he had the torch on the wrong terminal. He was a rare one though. When people take this attitude, we are wrong already. There is nothing that we can say to them but "ship it back, we'll pay to have it overnighted back and we'll send you another unit and throw in a bunch of extra consumables for the inconvenience, and we'll send you a loaner overnight in the mean time." to make them happy. More than half of my calls can and are resolved over the phone. To make this warranty thing work, we have to go over the basics, and trouble shoot over the phone. Many get ticked off if we ask them elementary questions, because it is like we are questioning their integrity or knowledge. Those are the ones that go all over the place complaining about warranty. But those are the ones likely to have the smallest problems, and the ones most likely to have no issue at all but refuse to cooperate in any investigation as to the cause.

    9) Some people want a overnight repair. We understand "unit down" issues, and try to cooperate, but cannot provide this service to every customer. We have to make decisions that don't please everyone. Other customers don't want their repairs shuffled back either. If it isn't back within a week of shipping it out, people get mad and say we take too long. Average repair time runs between 2 to 4 weeks. But seasonally, and very occasionally it can run longer. This is hardest on people that have only one unit in their shop and make their living with it. We do understand and try to make it painless as possible. But it we are human, and make mistakes. Sometimes we repair something, and find out after testing something else in the chain has failed or fails after being load banked because the initial problem stressed the components.

    Now, of course, yes, there are failures with the units occasionally. The repair facility that we equip also repairs other name brands. I asked the owner the other day about repair issues, and he told me they were "mild" in comparison with other name brands on most things. We've gone out of our way to equip and train our staff in Tennessee. Not only flying them to the factory in China, and flying factory personnel to our office in CA for common training and brain storming problems, but also we've made sure that the repair facility is more than a "swap" shop. They have the latest programming, testing and repair equipment, even to the point of having specially built equipment from the factory to rebuild, test, and repair. Your average service center on other brands is little more than a swap shop with an oscilloscope, a volt meter and a soldering iron. Ours is more than that...way more. Yes, we have one, but it is the best equipped one you will find in almost any welder repair shop in the country. And yes, I've been in others for comparison.

    Our pricing is much cheaper than anyone elses. We do this by eliminating the middle man, and operating on a little lower profit margin. Eliminating the middle man removes the "complaint" buffer that exists at a brick and mortar shop. The brick and mortar shops "eat up" a lot of complaints. For us, the first line of complaint isn't the counter guy at a LWS, but it is every forum and social media site on the internet. For some reason, people still don't think to call us. Or when they do, the unit is packed up and ready for return, then they get irate about answering questions.

    I've messed up with customers in the past. I probably still will. I am human. I try not to be, but I am at the end of the day, a father, husband, brother and son. I have cares and concerns just like everyone else in the company and we have a bad day once in a while.

    But anyone who knows me, I will go out of my way if you 1) Don't try to cuss at me and call me a redneck for my southern accent. Profanity is my hot spot. I don't cuss at customers, and well, if they cuss at me, I am not inclined to do anything that is not spelled out in the warranty, if you know what I mean. 2) Listen to what I am trying to have you to do, instead of saying "I already tried everything". That helps nothing, and gets nowhere. That is like a Doctor asking you "where does it hurt" and you tell him at some point and time, you've hurt everywhere. 3) Don't tell me what you think the problem is and here is what you want me to do to fix it. After 12 years with the company and after handling tens of thousands of customers calls (or more?) I have a purpose for asking the questions I ask. Sometimes the questions I ask may make you feel that I think you are an idiot. (which most of the time I don't unless you show me that you are), but there are numerous common operating errors that are made by even 40 year veterans of the industry that are simply because they are welding with something new, but didn't read the manual. 2) Don't lie to me and say you read the manual, and tell me what the manual told you to do...because I wrote most of the online manuals...and the newer ones put in the box. Lying to me about what the manual said to do, or that you read it, tells me that there is more than a 50/50 chance the operator is the issue, or you are trying to defend tearing up the unit. 4) Genuinely read the manual, instead of me being nothing more than your quick setup guide. I don't mind that if you are starting at ground 0 with welding, but those guys never tell me "I already tried everything".

    People tend to buy a unit based off what is stated that the maximum a unit will do. And then they buy it planning on using it at that maximum. My reply to this, is like, you don't buy a car to redline it all day do you? But for some reason, when you buy a welder, people do.

    As far as lasting, our units are out there and have been ticking along daily in everything from the Aerospace industry, to the Auto-Body industry, to the MotorSports industry, to the ship building industry. We have people with not only one or two welders, but 5, 6 or more units. We've replaced whole lines of the Dynasty's with our PowerTIGs in many shops.

    More than one person has stated, that they can buy two, keep one in reserve in case something happens to the other, and then still save 30% over the competition.

    The overwhelming 99.5% of our customers are great to deal with, especially through a warranty repair. But the .5% (or less actually) can make it seem like we are the worst thing in the world if they don't want to follow the warranty rules, or think they don't apply to them.
    Last edited by lugweld; 07-22-2020 at 12:20 AM.
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    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

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    Re: purchasing a tig welder

    Thank you for the response Lug I'm new top this site as well though I've cruised through some threads and seen your responses to them so i appreciate you taking the time to respond. I think the 350 EXT is most likely out of reach but just noticed the 250 EX. Comparing it to the 255EXT does it just lack the digital options and memory capacity as well as the two other wave forms?

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    Re: purchasing a tig welder

    The 250EX doesn't have the memory, advanced pulse, or the adjustable AC wave forms. Nor does it have the same level of stick welidng capability, or VRD. The 250EX has one, the 255EXT has 4 wave forms. You also miss out on precise control. The display only displays the Amps. Everything else is set by the tic marks on the dial, which isn't 100% accurate as we all know. The 255EXT/210EXT has a more reliable low amp start. The 250EX is a bit higher for most stable start.
    Esab Migmaster 250
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    Re: purchasing a tig welder

    Quote Originally Posted by lugweld View Post
    The 250EX doesn't have the memory, advanced pulse, or the adjustable AC wave forms. Nor does it have the same level of stick welidng capability, or VRD. The 250EX has one, the 255EXT has 4 wave forms. You also miss out on precise control. The display only displays the Amps. Everything else is set by the tic marks on the dial, which isn't 100% accurate as we all know. The 255EXT/210EXT has a more reliable low amp start. The 250EX is a bit higher for most stable start.
    Newb to this forum, that said, I learned how to TIG in the early 70s (yep, old geezer!), used to teach TIG back in the early 80s,did aircraft welding in the late 80s (including some turbine engine parts) and have not touched one since! Am looking at getting one one of these days to play with to do steel and aluminum, thinking about an Everlast, have been researching them. The quoted statement from lugweld put what I was thinking about (250EX) into perspective......now thinking 255EXT is the way to go. Thank you lugweld

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    Re: purchasing a tig welder

    I've owned a 210EXT since 2013 and it's been fine but I did have a warranty issue with a previous Everlast welder I can speak to. I'm pretty sure I'm not a misanthrope, or disgruntled, but we'll have to see if Mark (lugweld) agrees...

    The first unit developed an issue within the first couple of months where the display readout would change by itself even though the machine was welding the same. I would set the amperage, run a bead, look at the machine and see a very different number on the readout. Run another bead and the number would change again. I called Everlast and they sent a new display module, but it was for the wrong machine. I called them and told them it was the wrong part and they sent the correct part....that didn't help. I called and told them there was no change so they sent me a main board, but it was for the wrong machine. They sent another board which was the correct part, but it didn't fix the problem. At that point I was pretty frustrated and I finally wound up talking to Oleg who is the owner of Everlast. Oleg offered to send a replacement unit or credit me full purchase price towards an upgrade, which I took and got the 210 EXT. I did have to pay to ship the broken machine back to them.

    So yes, they did honor the warranty, but it took more effort on my part than I think it should have. I had a welder down for something like 6 weeks as we went back and forth with the wrong parts and parts that didn't help. If I owned a welding business I wouldn't risk these sorts of potential delays. If someone can't look up the correct part number based upon a serial number and put it in a box I'm not confident they're the same sort of service techs you get when dealing with the bigger companies. For hobby use, that may not be a factor. Now I'm waiting for Mark to say they had someone who was a problem right during that time frame and they're gone
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    Re: purchasing a tig welder

    Tech support is much larger and better trained. And yes, Gmanbart, you are right. We had one guy doing it all and no one helping out. The tech support and warranty repair department are separate, and we have two locations to repair now on opposite coasts. We have multiple people manning tech support lines 40 hours a week. And warranty centers are separate...and parts are separate, but we all communicate issues back and forth. Parts department has been increased in size and staff.

    As far as same level of service techs...these guys have their degrees, and they are also factory trained and are factory equipped as well. These are far better trained than your average service or tech guy from any other company...I can assure you.

    We have full printed diagnosis and repair instructions if the customer decides to repair a repairable item him/herself, which since the units are now mostly modular, repairs are simplified and most common items are pretty much just plug and play.

    It would be arrogant to assume things are the same as they were 8 years ago or more. We sell probably more than 10 fold more machines yearly now than back then. And we have increased staff and support and capability, as would any company as they grow. We've even quadrupled our ware house facilities...while our factory has increased capacity with new buildings and equipment right about 2013 or so.
    So, yes, we have changed...even adding support capability through facebook via several extremely popular Everlast owner's groups with 10's of thousands of followers. We've also expanded globally. One of the pictures below is of the European distributors show truck. We even have our Name:  factory1.JPG
Views: 140
Size:  102.3 KBown technical office in the factory where we work from when our guys are over there in the factory supervising production.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by lugweld; 07-30-2021 at 02:51 PM.
    Esab Migmaster 250
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    Re: purchasing a tig welder

    Quote Originally Posted by lugweld View Post
    Tech support is much larger and better trained. And yes, Gmanbart, you are right. We had one guy doing it all and no one helping out. The tech support and warranty repair department are separate, and we have two locations to repair now on opposite coasts. We have multiple people manning tech support lines 40 hours a week. And warranty centers are separate...and parts are separate, but we all communicate issues back and forth. Parts department has been increased in size and staff.

    As far as same level of service techs...these guys have their degrees, and they are also factory trained and are factory equipped as well. These are far better trained than your average service or tech guy from any other company...I can assure you.

    We have full printed diagnosis and repair instructions if the customer decides to repair a repairable item him/herself, which since the units are now mostly modular, repairs are simplified and most common items are pretty much just plug and play.

    It would be arrogant to assume things are the same as they were 8 years ago or more. We sell probably more than 10 fold more machines yearly now than back then. And we have increased staff and support and capability, as would any company as they grow. We've even quadrupled our ware house facilities...while our factory has increased capacity with new buildings and equipment right about 2013 or so.
    So, yes, we have changed...even adding support capability through facebook via several extremely popular Everlast owner's groups with 10's of thousands of followers. We've also expanded globally. One of the pictures below is of the European distributors show truck. We even have our Name:  factory1.JPG
Views: 140
Size:  102.3 KBown technical office in the factory where we work from when our guys are over there in the factory supervising production.
    Mark,

    I just noticed I had a typo....I got my 210EXT in 2016, not 2013 as I said earlier.

    As far as it being just one person, luckily I tend to save stuff. I saved all 54 e-mails it took to resolve the problem. There were quite a few phone calls involved as well...that was my first step. I dealt with four different people at Everlast, and have e-mail records of all of that. It wasn't just one person making mistakes, it seemed to be everyone until I talked to Oleg.

    I never said things today were just like there were back then so calling me arrogant was unnecessary (and just rude). I simply detailed my experience and said it was ultimately resolved to my satisfaction. People can find plenty of discussions on Everlast customer service to make their own decision if things have changed.

    About those service techs... There was a thread over on Tractor By Net in 2017 where you said that you're in Georgia, but the Everlast folks on the left coast hadn't been working for Everlast as long as you had (2009), and that "most of them never have struck an arc." That certainly sounds like the folks I talked to in 2016. I'm sure all of them have been let go and in the past five years an entirely new force of highly trained folks have been brought on board with years of experience.
    Check out my bench vise website:
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    Miller Syncrowave 250DX
    Millermatic 350P with XR AlumaPro
    Miller Regency 200 with 22A feeder and Spoolmatic 3
    Hobart Champion Elite
    Everlast PowerTig 210EXT

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    Re: purchasing a tig welder

    Quote Originally Posted by G-ManBart View Post
    Mark,

    I just noticed I had a typo....I got my 210EXT in 2016, not 2013 as I said earlier.

    As far as it being just one person, luckily I tend to save stuff. I saved all 54 e-mails it took to resolve the problem. There were quite a few phone calls involved as well...that was my first step. I dealt with four different people at Everlast, and have e-mail records of all of that. It wasn't just one person making mistakes, it seemed to be everyone until I talked to Oleg.

    I never said things today were just like there were back then so calling me arrogant was unnecessary (and just rude). I simply detailed my experience and said it was ultimately resolved to my satisfaction. People can find plenty of discussions on Everlast customer service to make their own decision if things have changed.

    About those service techs... There was a thread over on Tractor By Net in 2017 where you said that you're in Georgia, but the Everlast folks on the left coast hadn't been working for Everlast as long as you had (2009), and that "most of them never have struck an arc." That certainly sounds like the folks I talked to in 2016. I'm sure all of them have been let go and in the past five years an entirely new force of highly trained folks have been brought on board with years of experience.
    It was about 2016 when things seriously began to transition and added staff, and yes several aren't there anymore.
    Esab Migmaster 250
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    Lincoln Ranger 8
    Smith Oxy Fuel setup
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80
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    Everlast PowerARC 300
    Everlast PowerARC 140ST
    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

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