Hobart 1/16" 7014 amperage?

[Kelvin]

Get you some 6010 and LET 'ER EAT! (You should probably use cleaner coupons for 701X.)

I never cared much for 7014, seems like it makes GALLONS of slag...I like 7018 a lot better, though I've never used either one on material that thin.

[FlyFishn]

Get you some 6010 and LET 'ER EAT!

Got some, 1/8".

I suspect your comment is because 6010 can bite through rough condition metal. I don't think 6010 would be a good choice for thin metal, however. Thicker structural/framing steel like that used on farm implements left outside - perfect application for 6010, I'd say. Just not thin stuff. Though, I could be wrong.

(You should probably use cleaner coupons for 701X.)

That was some old sheet metal I had laying around that rusted (hence the pits). I used a heavy wire wheel on an angle grinder to clean it somewhat and cut some strips out of it. Those strips were used as sacrificial spacers on another fab project. I drilled holes between 2 thick plates that are to grip steel cables. The sheet metal spaced the thick plates out so there was a range of compression to grip the cables. I simply drilled straight through the sheet metal (the center of the drilled holes) to get the grooves in the plates where the cable sits. For "sacrificial use" clean metal didn't matter much. The pieces left make good practice, though.

On the bottom of the coupons you can see the cleaner metal near the joint where I did wire wheel them again before working with them today.

Beyond the wire wheel, if I put a grinding wheel on there to get down under the pits and get to real clean metal I'd probably end up grinding off more material than what would be left to attempt to weld...

I never cared much for 7014, seems like it makes GALLONS of slag...I like 7018 a lot better, though I've never used either one on material that thin.

I noticed the thick slag. The ~40 amp test weld was caked. One tap and the whole cake came off at once leaving that bead. That was pretty cool to see.

[Welder Dave]

Lots of people use 6010/6011 for thin stuff or filling gaps. You can burn through the slag. I used 3/32 6011 to weld a replacement muffler on a GMC Topkick. Just barely struck an arc and just continued that way.

[Kelvin]

Got some, 1/8".

I suspect your comment is because 6010 can bite through rough condition metal. I don't think 6010 would be a good choice for thin metal, however. Thicker structural/framing steel like that used on farm implements left outside - perfect application for 6010, I'd say. Just not thin stuff. Though, I could be wrong.

A "fast freeze" rod works fine, you just need to learn how to work with it. You should be able to get full penetration from one side. Read up on how to read the "keyhole" for more on how to get full penetration, the way pipe welders do it. (Not that you would use a "keyhole" technique on sheet metal, but practicing it on heavier stuff with a bevel will help teach you how to run right at the ragged edge of blowing through. It's kind of a balancing act between "just enough" and "too much.")

Also, if you're welding it with it clamped to that heavier piece as shown in your photo, that's not going to help your penetration. (It's a big heat sink.)

[FlyFishn]

Also, if you're welding it with it clamped to that heavier piece as shown in your photo, that's not going to help your penetration. (It's a big heat sink.)

Thanks for the thoughts. That is is a good point. The reason I did that was I was trying to get the pieces flush together (same plane, not off set) with a gap to fill when welding.

How else would you do a flush butt joint on sheet like that without a backing?

[Kelvin]

How else would you do a flush butt joint on sheet like that without a backing?

You could tack it then suspend it, or put each butt end overhanging another piece, or tack it standing up, or grab both pieces on one end of the joint with vice grips, or tack a strip across the joint to hold the pieces coplanar, lots of ways to do it. Use your noggin. (They also make special clamps just for this purpose for sheet metal, but I'm cheap and usually in a hurry and end up bodging something together when I need it.)

You can also do it the way you did, and that can help prevent blow-through for the same reason it prevents full-pen. If you want a heat sink for that purpose (that will be "non-stick"), a piece of 1/4" aluminum works well. Copper works even better.

[Kelvin]

Forgot to mention, one other nice thing about using a cellulosic rod like 601X for sheet metal or thin stuff is that you can stop-start-stop-start over and over again -- allowing it to cool some in between starts -- without having to break flux off the weld or the electrode. The slag on the weld itself is thin enough that you'll burn right through it, and you won't get any slag on the tip of the electrode that you would need to break off if you were using something like 7018. It's not something you should do for structural stuff, but for sheet metal or non-critical things, it works fine and saves time.

[FlyFishn]

Excellent info Kelvin. Much appreciated.

I did more practice today with the 1/16" 7014 trying the tack and suspend method. I had the amperage up around 45 amps in the first attempt here, if I recall correctly. The gap was larger to start with because the piece was another one of the "sacrificial" sheet metal parts but the bit deflected and left this one together at one end. So the groove from the bit was what I tried to start with - which was either 1/8" or 3/16". Either way, it was too large of a gap as it turned out.









I did another couple small pieces here as well. I took some more care with the prep and tacking. The middle of the joint was pretty good, but where I tacked is pretty bad.

[FlyFishn]

And the bottom of the joint:

[Kelvin]

You got full pen!

Now you get to learn about grinding.

[Welder Dave]

Get some thicker plate to learn welding. You're just making it harder for yourself playing around with thin stuff.

[FlyFishn]

You got full pen!

Now you get to learn about grinding.

When I get a chance I'm going to try the method of tacking across a strip on both ends (and not tack the joint, tack another part of the pieces). I am not sure how the sections of the joint over the support pieces will fare - penetrating all the way through the joint may mean the support pieces will get fused to the joint. If I use aluminum for the backing (which I have) then I can't tack the steel coupons to the backing. Will be interesting to try it, though.

I suppose another method would be to tack at one end, run the weld 1/2 way, then remove the tacks, grind out the start of the weld in the middle, tack the opposite way, and finish the joint. Though, that still leaves one end of the joint unsupported = may move. If I start the weld at the far end of the joint I run in to the same problem - unsupported joint = will move right when I start. So maybe tacking the far end together is a good idea on top of the coupons tacked to a base on the other, then run the weld 1/2 way, and finish by cutting out the far end tack and feather the start/end of the 1st weld 1/2 way so as to get a better blend.

Interesting stuff.

[FlyFishn]

Blue Demon 5/64" 7014 came today. They are in a sealed pack inside the plastic box. Would it matter much to open them? The Hobarts weren't sealed from the get-go and none of the Lincoln boxes I have (7014, 6011, 6010, 6013, 7018 in various sizes) are - though 7018 technically should be in a rod oven. That's another thing I will keep my eye out for is a decent oven.

[shortfuse]

Open the 7014's and use them, you won't hurt them. The 7018's are the only ones you listed that are sensitive to being open and that's for code work only...I use 7018's that have been open for a year or two here around the shop. I wouldn't worry about needing an oven for 7018 unless you are going to be doing code work. They can be expensive and do use electricity.

[Kelvin]

That's another thing I will keep my eye out for is a decent oven.

In your shoes, I think I'd spend the money on 100# of 7018 and burn that up before worrying about an oven for it. At this point, your welding technique (or lack thereof) is going to be orders of magnitude more important than any hydrogen you might get into your (non-code) welds.