Tube/pipe Bending dies ?

[tapwelder]

What advantage does a 90 degree have over a 180 degree die? Is there situation where one would have to use a 90?

[William McCormick]

What advantage does a 90 degree have over a 180 degree die? Is there situation where one would have to use a 90?

There might be an occasional time that you want to make two ninety-degree bends perpendicular to each other that perhaps on a rare occasion the die and bender would allow it, however, it never happened for me. And I got my hand caught in a Hossfeld bender trying to bend something like that once. The 180-degree die is better to have for railings. The bends on the top of the stairs if the pipe rail is started right at the top of the stairs is over 90 degrees. And if you make the rails in one piece at the bottom of the stairs it is also over 90 degrees.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

[leightrepairs]

The biggest difference is that with a 90 degree die you can only go to 90 degree or less, with 180 you can do everything up-to 180. I would get 180 degree dies unless the machine is only capable of 90 degrees. The design of the machine is usually the determining factor as t the 90 or 180 degree die. I can not ever remember wishing I had a 90 degree die instead of a 180, but there have been times when I had a machine that would only bend 90 and sure needed to bend more. You can almost make a 180 bend with a 90 degree machine or die by making to separate bends back to back but it is not a true 180 degree bend.

[farmersammm]

I built a draw bender, and wouldn't even dream of less than 180* dies.

A die of any kind is usually made to bend in excess of the stated bend capacity. In other words........a 180 will actually go to at least 190. This has to do with the starting point. You need to start a bend on the radius in order to be accurate, and repeatable. Also.......it's hard to start exactly on the entrance of the radius. It's good to have the few degree fudge factor.

An additional issue is springback. A 90* die can run into trouble when dealing with springback. You need to go beyond 90 to actually get 90. If the die is limited to a true 90* radius, it might be impossible to go that extra 5 or so degrees without denting the tube. I doubt that any commercial die would be limited to a true 90, but ya never know with this imported crap.

[tapwelder]

Thanks for the replays. I have a JD2 32. Had a mod3. Rarely use them, but need a new die. I was not sure if I would be limited with a 180 degree die vs a 90.

I vaguely recall a proximity issue, but it has been a while. The 180 might be a time saver, though.

[farmersammm]

By the looks of the pics in this listing https://www.ebay.com/itm/JD2-hydraul...4AAOSwdLJfP8at the bender should have the capability of handling the full 180* dies.

Take a close look at the pics,, and you'll see the additional +180* built into the dies. They probably go at least 190*

It's the entrance, and exit points, on the die that matter. The entrance point must allow the tubing to be started on the radius, otherwise it'll mar the tube.

[Welder Dave]

Might depend on the bend radius and capacity of the bender.

[farmersammm]

Might depend on the bend radius and capacity of the bender.

I think he'll be allright. The pics in the Ebay listing show the 180 dies. I guess you'd have to see what the actual capacity, tube diameter/wall thickness wise, is.

My bender maxes out at 1" Stainless, or 1" thick wall carbon hydraulic tubing. But,, it's a small bender. I built it to handle all the hydraulic lines on the stuff I have. It's not for structural tubing.

I've thought of something for the large diameter stuff, but it would have to be heavy, and powered by the hydraulics on the tractor. Probably ain't ever gonna happen.......no real need for it.

[bassboy1]

I have a JD2 model 3, so pretty much the same geometry as your model 32, and I cannot envision a profile that you can bend on a 90 but not a 180. Given the location of the follow block, you can't get a second bend close enough to the first one to even come close to hitting the back of the die.

Only thing I can see is that you save $30 or $35 per die getting the 90, so if you're absolutely sure you'd never need it, I guess it would save a couple bucks...? For that little price difference, the 180 degree die seems like a no brainer.

[William McCormick]

By the looks of the pics in this listing https://www.ebay.com/itm/JD2-hydraul...4AAOSwdLJfP8at the bender should have the capability of handling the full 180* dies.

Take a close look at the pics,, and you'll see the additional +180* built into the dies. They probably go at least 190*

It's the entrance, and exit points, on the die that matter. The entrance point must allow the tubing to be started on the radius, otherwise it'll mar the tube.

The Parker Hanifin will bend the pipe past 180 to a point you have to wrestle and unbend it from the die.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

[farmersammm]

The Parker Hanifin will bend the pipe past 180 to a point you have to wrestle and unbend it from the die.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

Mine will too. It's not near as big as the Parker Hanifin (mine's only meant for hyd tubing), and I went with the roller design that Swagelok uses. I really like those rollers. Smoooooooooth effortless bends, and no messing with dies.

[William McCormick]

Mine will too. It's not near as big as the Parker Hanifin (mine's only meant for hyd tubing), and I went with the roller design that Swagelok uses. I really like those rollers. Smoooooooooth effortless bends, and no messing with dies.

Yea those benders are great. And you do not have to drag out setup and remember how to use them, haha. I do a lot of HVAC for friends and family and I have the crossbow bender by Yellow Jacket for the copper line sets and it has some advantages in some cases but still a pain in the butt and a little flimsy. It will only do annealed copper.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

[jw3]

Mine will too. It's not near as big as the Parker Hanifin (mine's only meant for hyd tubing), and I went with the roller design that Swagelok uses. I really like those rollers. Smoooooooooth effortless bends, and no messing with dies.

Farmersammm what type of bender do you have? Is it home brew or something purchased?


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[farmersammm]

Farmersammm what type of bender do you have? Is it home brew or something purchased?


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I didn't see this post The bender is a DIY based on the Swagelok Benchtop Bender. Not a direct copy, but the same principle. I like the use of rollers instead of a solid follower die that clamps against the bending die. Less effort, and LESS WEAR.

It's a totally dry bending system. No slopping lube on the tubing to make it "flow" through the fixed die.

These are bends in 5/8, .065 wall, stainless.







It works well with thick wall tubing up to 1" diameter stainless or carbon. I need to make a mandrel thingy for it, so that it will do thin wall tubing. Parker offers a mandrel setup for use with its benchtop bender, you might want to look at it. It's really very simple. Really just an adjustable rod with a mandrel plug on the end of it. The key is adjusting the plug so that it's in the right place as the tube bends. If you look at various websites, you can get the clearance sizes for different size/diameter plugs. I was surprised that they fit looser than I thought they would.

A draw bender is better than the old style crush benders. Smoother, and less tendency to crush/mar the tubing.

Anyways...........the build was a long drawn out process. Not expensive, but requiring a lot of midstream redesigns as it progressed. More actual time planning, than actual machining.

[jw3]

Think I could get a picture or two?


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[William McCormick]

I have a JD2 model 3, so pretty much the same geometry as your model 32, and I cannot envision a profile that you can bend on a 90 but not a 180. Given the location of the follow block, you can't get a second bend close enough to the first one to even come close to hitting the back of the die.

Only thing I can see is that you save $30 or $35 per die getting the 90, so if you're absolutely sure you'd never need it, I guess it would save a couple bucks...? For that little price difference, the 180 degree die seems like a no brainer.

I just ordered the JD2 hydraulic bender. They are slightly behind on certain components due to their suppliers being behind on shipping to them. It is a rugged bender though from the parts I have received so far.

The Parker Hanifin I have will not do schedule 40 stainless steel pipe so I got the JD32, I have a Greenlee powerpack that I will use to power the system so all and all it is a pretty cheap investment. I ordered two follow blocks so I can just swap follow blocks rather than bolt the wiper blades on and off as I switch from aluminum to stainless. So far I have the 1.66" O.D. die and I am going to get the dies for one and a half-inch pipe and 2" pipe.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

[tapwelder]

90degrees die allows you to make close bends more than 180 degrees, theoretically up to 270 degrees. 180 can only do up to 180 degrees.

Random thought that pop in my head.

Waiting on a 90 degree die from jd2 for a potential job in February. 4 to 6 week lead on dies.