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Thread: Bird Nest

  1. #26
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    No, and it does not with the tip on until you strike an arc. With bigger wires (.035) it welds a while without a problem, squeeze the trigger, nothing happens.
    Okay. So, what happens, if you position the gun so the wire feeds out almost parallel to the work piece, while maintaining an arc?

  2. #27
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    Re: Bird Nest

    I had this experience once and it was the coating on the wire like the post said it was a thin coat of rust I know the wire is coated but moisture and dust & rust can build up on the wire causing the drive rolls and liner to get sticky or gummed up. Having burned a lot of 035 I am a firm believer in wipers and lube . We ran two wipers 1 with lube 1 dry you will be amazed at what comes off if that wire. Secondly I am not a firm believer in running oversized tips if you do they wear out fast and it changes your voltage setting

    I know there are arguments both ways just my 2 cents worth

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  4. #28
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Leogl View Post
    I had this experience once and it was the coating on the wire like the post said it was a thin coat of rust I know the wire is coated but moisture and dust & rust can build up on the wire causing the drive rolls and liner to get sticky or gummed up. Having burned a lot of 035 I am a firm believer in wipers and lube . We ran two wipers 1 with lube 1 dry you will be amazed at what comes off if that wire. Secondly I am not a firm believer in running oversized tips if you do they wear out fast and it changes your voltage setting

    I know there are arguments both ways just my 2 cents worth
    I would agree with what you said. Oversized tips will cause premature wear at best, erratic arc is more likely. I also use wipers with lube and haven't had issues. It really doesn't take much debris on the wire to cause major feed issues. The brand of wire itself can often be an issue. I've thrown more than a few spools of wire out over the years because they wouldn't feed correctly. It's almost impossible to get that through to someone who is inexperienced and sees it only as a roll of " wire". All in all its a simple process of diagnosis, and the best way to approach it is to start at simple and only change one variable at a time.

  5. #29
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Oversized tips will also cause wear in the liner because it isn’t centered like it is supposed to be

  6. #30
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Leogl View Post
    I had this experience once and it was the coating on the wire like the post said it was a thin coat of rust I know the wire is coated but moisture and dust & rust can build up on the wire causing the drive rolls and liner to get sticky or gummed up. Having burned a lot of 035 I am a firm believer in wipers and lube . We ran two wipers 1 with lube 1 dry you will be amazed at what comes off if that wire. Secondly I am not a firm believer in running oversized tips if you do they wear out fast and it changes your voltage setting

    I know there are arguments both ways just my 2 cents worth
    I agree. I use the same 2-wiper system. Lots of crud even on brand new wire.
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  7. #31
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Weldordie View Post
    Okay. So, what happens, if you position the gun so the wire feeds out almost parallel to the work piece, while maintaining an arc?
    Gee, I don't know.

    Today I "welded" several hours. Meaning I cut, grinded, fitted, clamped & welded. The welder was at its best! Every weld was on 1/4" angle & flat. A generator base, not a real grueling test of a MIG welder. All afternoon, not a single birdnest!

    Pictures are of gussets I add, purely cosmetic. The generator has round corners, the bases I build are square. There would be a little triangular hole without these. I don't make a deliberate bevel to leave room for weld metal, I chamfer to clean up plasma dross.

    These are in awkward position, vertical up, and horizontal.

    Name:  MIGHT.jpg
Views: 289
Size:  175.7 KBName:  MIG.jpg
Views: 281
Size:  137.0 KB
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  8. #32
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    Re: Bird Nest

    What I was going to suggest is to clean all of the electrical contact surfaces, such as where the MIG gun attaches to the welder, etc. If you have any current problems that may be contributing.
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  9. #33
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    Re: Bird Nest

    It looks fixed
    Do have photos of nest

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Gee, I don't know.

    Today I "welded" several hours. Meaning I cut, grinded, fitted, clamped & welded. The welder was at its best! Every weld was on 1/4" angle & flat. A generator base, not a real grueling test of a MIG welder. All afternoon, not a single birdnest!

    Pictures are of gussets I add, purely cosmetic. The generator has round corners, the bases I build are square. There would be a little triangular hole without these. I don't make a deliberate bevel to leave room for weld metal, I chamfer to clean up plasma dross.

    These are in awkward position, vertical up, and horizontal.

    Name:  MIGHT.jpg
Views: 289
Size:  175.7 KBName:  MIG.jpg
Views: 281
Size:  137.0 KB

  10. #34
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    Re: Bird Nest

    After 10 yrs. And all you had to do is admit there was an issue on WW.
    Last edited by tapwelder; 11-09-2020 at 01:08 PM.

  11. #35
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Glad it's working good. It looks like you could turn the heat up a bit.

  12. #36
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    After 10 yrs. And all you had to do is admit there was an issue on WW.
    I still haven't tried it with .023. I'd be surprised if that issue is cured. Wish there was a lube that'd not cause other problems.
    Last edited by Willie B; 11-09-2020 at 06:40 PM.
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  13. #37
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    Glad it's working good. It looks like you could turn the heat up a bit.
    That was vertical up. I was pulsing. Photo posts sideways almost every time.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  14. #38
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    Re: Bird Nest

    I was going to suggest that you clean contacts also but since it is working go for it 1 more thing to check is your ground lead leads tend to take a beating in a shop getting pulled on etc we used to have to cut the clamp end off and redo the clamp the insides of it would be just black dust
    Contrary to popular believe leads do wear out especially on semi automatic processes

    Good luck

  15. #39
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    That was vertical up. I was pulsing. Photo posts sideways almost every time.
    So what was the cure?

  16. #40
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    So what was the cure?
    Don't exactly know. Second new liner this year, adjust the bottom roller alignment, spool off some wire through several birdnests. I can't say. I am perplexed that there seems nothing to do about the top roller adjustment. If the bottom roller was off, it was by thousandths.

    The less than a year old liner was discolored near the tip, but that I would have expected.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  17. #41
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Leogl View Post
    I was going to suggest that you clean contacts also but since it is working go for it 1 more thing to check is your ground lead leads tend to take a beating in a shop getting pulled on etc we used to have to cut the clamp end off and redo the clamp the insides of it would be just black dust
    Contrary to popular believe leads do wear out especially on semi automatic processes

    Good luck
    I did notice the ground clamp was hot several months ago. I bought a new one, but haven't gotten around to install it. I guess I will now.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  18. #42
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    I did notice the ground clamp was hot several months ago. I bought a new one, but haven't gotten around to install it. I guess I will now.
    I was going to look at the drive on my 252 today but was up to my armpits in a Kenworth ISX engine and forgot. It's been through millions of feet of .035 and .045 wire without any problems. I've changed one liner since 2016... but I'm the only one that runs it. The first improvement I made was to chuck the ground lead and tin clamp and replace it with 15' of 1/0 cable and a 500 amp Lenco clamp, yeah it's overkill but it doesn't get hot or arc.

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  20. #43
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    Check the wire you pull from the gun when you have these issues. I had an Esab 250 that had a bad connection to the gun connection block on the front of the machine and sent most of the weld current through the wire rather than the gun cable, It made small burns on the wire that were very hard to see and those burns would stick it tight in the contact tip.
    My inverter did that to me after sitting for a while, it uses DINSE connectors on the front for polarity & process swaps, it would have NO power & then the panel would jump to over 60 volts and send about 4 feet of wire out & then stop & do it all again over and over if you tried welding, all it took was a twist on the DINSE connector to secure the connection. I didn't look at the wire, but at the voltage it showed it would get red really quick & managed to get one trial across two fingers for a nice burn-------------------NOT!
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  22. #44
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    Re: Bird Nest


    Willie B
    per Leogl

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    I did notice the ground clamp was hot several months ago . . .
    When I suggested 'clean all contacts', it included - but did not
    emphasize
    - the Ground Clamp.

    Before you reattach - cut the cable back 12/16" to guarantee
    fresh-meat . . .

    hth


    Opus



    .


  23. #45
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    Re: Bird Nest

    & no, I hadn't considered the ground clamp until now. I always grind a clean spot for the ground clamp & shine up the contact on the clamp, but got to the service guy last week with only a scrap of grader blade quite rusty & no grinder with me. He had quite a hard time with birdnest too.

    Maybe that is the secret?
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  24. #46
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    That was vertical up. I was pulsing. Photo posts sideways almost every time.
    This forum, and many others on the same platform, has a problem with cell phone pictures taken with the phone held vertically (portrait orientation). There's a fix from what I've read on other forums. I started this thread on it, but it's not getting any traction.

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  25. #47
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Leogl View Post
    Oversized tips will also cause wear in the liner because it isn’t centered like it is supposed to be
    On cheap chinese liners maybe. We are talking less than .005" on one side of the tip. Way closer than you would get with cheap chinese mig welders and torches.
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  27. #48
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    Re: Bird Nest

    I've seen cheap imported wire cause problems like OP described. But sounds like hes got it cornered with the ground situation. Miller feeders imo have always been more "sensitive" to these kind of issues. If the arc is not initiating properly with a faulty ground, a bird nest is very possible to occur. Have you tested wire tension by spooling the wire into a gloved hand (with and without a tip). That would eliminate some variables. Start working backwards from there until you find the problem or get to the wire itself.

  28. #49
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Did try the bend the wire trick. Tighten the roller tension just enough to bend the wire. The wire is Maine OXY branded. They tell me hundreds of rolls have been run without complaints.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  29. #50
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    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Did try the bend the wire trick. Tighten the roller tension just enough to bend the wire. The wire is Maine OXY branded. They tell me hundreds of rolls have been run without complaints.
    I've never actually used that one - I pinch the wire with my gloved hand and adjust until it can moderately push wire through but still slips without bird nesting when I stop it.
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