Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 84

Thread: Bird Nest

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    city of Four Flags
    Posts
    1,957
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Don't exactly know. Second new liner this year, adjust the bottom roller alignment, spool off some wire through several birdnests. I can't say. I am perplexed that there seems nothing to do about the top roller adjustment. If the bottom roller was off, it was by thousandths.

    The less than a year old liner was discolored near the tip, but that I would have expected.
    I was having arc start issues with my 252 and Q300. I adjusted the drive roll alignment and that issue went away. I never looked at the idle roll but assumed it had the ability to self align with the drive roll.

    The liner shouldn't have discoloration from heat unless you have the gun all but burned to the ground. All weld power goes through the cable hose to the conductor tube(gooseneck) then to the diffuser and finally to the contact tip.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    803
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by vwguy3 View Post
    I was having arc start issues with my 252 and Q300. I adjusted the drive roll alignment and that issue went away. I never looked at the idle roll but assumed it had the ability to self align with the drive roll.

    The liner shouldn't have discoloration from heat unless you have the gun all but burned to the ground. All weld power goes through the cable hose to the conductor tube(gooseneck) then to the diffuser and finally to the contact tip.
    The idle roller has a fair amount of in/out play in it that lets it self-align with the wire. I just give the top roll a little wiggle in and out to make sure it's seated on the wire before closing the pressure latch...seems to do the trick.
    Check out my bench vise website:
    http://mivise.com


    Miller Syncrowave 250DX
    Millermatic 350P with XR AlumaPro
    Miller Regency 200 with 22A feeder and Spoolmatic 3
    Hobart Champion Elite
    Everlast PowerTig 210EXT

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SoCal-LA
    Posts
    9,794
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    I am still going with tight contact tip. I always remove tip when feeding new wire into the liner, and clean out burrs and debris with the tip file. Worn tips work the best. If still a problem move a tip bigger.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.

  4. Likes CAVEMANN liked this post
  5. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Sebeka and Bemidji MN
    Posts
    14,769
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    I am still going with tight contact tip. I always remove tip when feeding new wire into the liner, and clean out burrs and debris with the tip file. Worn tips work the best. If still a problem move a tip bigger.
    I just did that with a tip that a student was running. He said it "constantly burns back now after the first time" (when he stuck the tip to the work).

    WFS/volts was where I had set it, unscrewed the tip and it was dragging.

    Little file work and kid is back to welding
    (I only have 1 spare tip for that machine)
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  6. Likes shovelon liked this post
  7. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    125
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Does the liner have a kink in it? Did you maybe drive a car over the stinger or trip over it some time, roll it into a corner and kink the liner , something like that. My HH 135 had something like that happen. Drove me nuts for years sticking . Mine when I finally found it had just the tiniest shallowest kink but it was enough.
    You might try putting one of those lube pads ahead of where it enters the liner. I donít even use the mounting . I just clamp it on the wire and let it ride the wire. the I got one from cyber weld for $5 and tossed it in there to help out with old slightly rusty wire. Does it help or work ,who knows .


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  8. #56
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Wa. state
    Posts
    4,509
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by driz View Post
    Does the liner have a kink in it? Did you maybe drive a car over the stinger or trip over it some time, roll it into a corner and kink the liner , something like that. My HH 135 had something like that happen. Drove me nuts for years sticking . Mine when I finally found it had just the tiniest shallowest kink but it was enough.
    You might try putting one of those lube pads ahead of where it enters the liner. I don’t even use the mounting . I just clamp it on the wire and let it ride the wire. the I got one from cyber weld for $5 and tossed it in there to help out with old slightly rusty wire. Does it help or work ,who knows .


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    In my experience, those wipers do collect junk and garbage from the wire... then dump it all at once into your drive rolls and liner. I wont use them anymore.

  9. Likes ronsii liked this post
  10. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Mount Tabor VT
    Posts
    7,469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by driz View Post
    Does the liner have a kink in it? Did you maybe drive a car over the stinger or trip over it some time, roll it into a corner and kink the liner , something like that. My HH 135 had something like that happen. Drove me nuts for years sticking . Mine when I finally found it had just the tiniest shallowest kink but it was enough.
    You might try putting one of those lube pads ahead of where it enters the liner. I donít even use the mounting . I just clamp it on the wire and let it ride the wire. the I got one from cyber weld for $5 and tossed it in there to help out with old slightly rusty wire. Does it help or work ,who knows .


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I'm very careful about kinking. I did burn the gun up a while back running Dual Shield. I bought a bunch of new parts to rebuild it then. The liner was replaced then. I put another new Miller liner in a week ago.

    Shovelon's comment about a tip file has me curious. I have tip cleaners for acetylene torch, but never heard of a tip file for MIG. I'm going to explore that possibility.

    The retired welder repair guy did say a couple ear plugs on the wire is fine, replace each time you rethread wire. He warned against the fiber wipers. They'll allow a wad of $hit along with fibers torn from the wiper to pass every now & then.
    Last edited by Willie B; 11-14-2020 at 07:44 AM.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  11. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    183
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Well I have burned 100’s of rolls of .035 and when problems start they are usually simple contact tips are a consumable if the hole isn’t round and they have been stuck they need to be replaced grinding , filing drilling tips is not a proper way to make them weld . Dipping a tip in nozzle Gell and using a wiper is a very common practice and is widely accepted . Wipers are a consumable when you change wire rolls you change wiper . Run two wipers one with lube and one dry look at the inside of those wipers when you change rolls they
    are full of junk
    Watched a guy in pipe fab shop use used wipers always had problems . New roll new wipers new tips when you need them

  12. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    398
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Dumb question, but were any of the old liners discolored? If so, they were probably carrying welding current.

  13. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Mount Tabor VT
    Posts
    7,469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Denis G View Post
    Dumb question, but were any of the old liners discolored? If so, they were probably carrying welding current.
    Wait a minute! aren't they supposed to? Yes, the liner I just removed was discolored for a foot on the gun end. I'd have to study old purchase records, but it is between 1 & 2 years old. Still perplexing, the new liner was bird nesting also.

    Thinking it over, the welder service guy was trying it on an old rusty piece of steel without gas. It bird nested repeatedly. At home, I tried a couple days later, It behaved fine. Only two factors I can think of: Ground, or gas. Here, I ground off rust to a clean surface, and I used gas.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  14. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    3,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Could current be arcing on the liner?

  15. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    AJO, ARIZONA
    Posts
    3,747
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Do you have to cut the new liners to length? If so could the cutting deform the liner enough to cause a problem, like a little burr or flattened a bit.I always clean mine with an appropriate drill bit.
    IMPEACH BIDEN!
    NRA LIFE MEMBER

    UNITWELD 175 AMP 3 IN1 DC
    MIDSTATES 300 AMP AC MACHINE
    GOD HELP AMERICA!
    ďFreedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
    We didnít pass it to our children in the bloodstream".
    RONALD REAGAN

  16. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Mount Tabor VT
    Posts
    7,469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by CAVEMANN View Post
    Do you have to cut the new liners to length? If so could the cutting deform the liner enough to cause a problem, like a little burr or flattened a bit.I always clean mine with an appropriate drill bit.
    I cut metal jacketed cable all the time. The inevitable sharp point is kept out of the inner space. Just something I always think about. Usually touch up with a file, or bench grinder.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  17. Likes CAVEMANN liked this post
  18. #64
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Wa. state
    Posts
    4,509
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    I cut metal jacketed cable all the time. The inevitable sharp point is kept out of the inner space. Just something I always think about. Usually touch up with a file, or bench grinder.
    I cut liners with a high leverage diagonal cutter... (dikes) If you work one jaw in carefully through the coil and then cut, usually no touch up required.

    That discoloration in the last foot of the liner may just be heat from the gun and lube dust from dual shield wire. I get that on mine.

  19. Likes ronsii liked this post
  20. #65
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    398
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    The liner is not supposed to carry welding current -
    https://www.bernardwelds.com/mig-gun-liners--p152451

  21. Likes Welder Dave liked this post
  22. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    AJO, ARIZONA
    Posts
    3,747
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    I cut liners with a high leverage diagonal cutter... (dikes) If you work one jaw in carefully through the coil and then cut, usually no touch up required.

    That discoloration in the last foot of the liner may just be heat from the gun and lube dust from dual shield wire. I get that on mine.
    You don't see a lot of guys that know what dikes are!
    IMPEACH BIDEN!
    NRA LIFE MEMBER

    UNITWELD 175 AMP 3 IN1 DC
    MIDSTATES 300 AMP AC MACHINE
    GOD HELP AMERICA!
    ďFreedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
    We didnít pass it to our children in the bloodstream".
    RONALD REAGAN

  23. Likes ronsii liked this post
  24. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    10,551
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by CAVEMANN View Post
    You don't see a lot of guys that know what dikes are!
    I have a lot of dikes around here.... some big some little... some with holes between the edges for stripping

  25. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    2,481
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Here is a view of a wire feeder
    You want to keep feed tube very close to feed rollers.
    Do not tighten wire feed rollers to tight.
    This will stop bird nest in the wire feeder.

    Dave
    Name:  Screenshot_20201116-110420_Drive.jpg
Views: 145
Size:  374.6 KB

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Millermatic 252 is now 10 years old. It has always been useless with .023 wire. I have four guns; A short one dedicated to .023, the stock one (M25) for .030 & .035, the big Bernard gun can run .035, but it usually runs Dual Shield .045, and a spool gun.

    Lately, it has taken to bird nesting with .035, and .045 also. I tried new tips & new liner, no improvement.

    There is a retired, formerly Miller authorized service man in the city. I took it to him. After an hour of fine tuning, it fouls less often. His theory is an invisible layer of rust on the wire.

    Anybody got suggections?
    HF 170 welder
    HF 4x6 band saw
    South Bend 9N
    Mill
    B&D mag drill
    Victor torch

  26. #69
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    MN/WI
    Posts
    417
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by CAVEMANN View Post
    You don't see a lot of guys that know what dikes are!

    From : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagon...%20it%20out%22.

    ""Diags or dikes (a portmanteau of "diagonal cutters") is jargon used especially in the US electrical industry, to describe diagonal pliers.""
    Century buzzbox that I learned on 40+ years ago (was Dad's)
    Crappy Century 110volt mig 70 amp pigeon pooper.
    Lincoln Idealarc TIG-300

  27. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Mount Tabor VT
    Posts
    7,469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    Here is a view of a wire feeder
    You want to keep feed tube very close to feed rollers.
    Do not tighten wire feed rollers to tight.
    This will stop bird nest in the wire feeder.

    Dave
    Name:  Screenshot_20201116-110420_Drive.jpg
Views: 145
Size:  374.6 KB
    Mine is perhaps closer than in your picture. The liner comes from Miller as I used it. I considered adjusting it, but couldn't move it hardly at all without touching.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  28. #71
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St. Paul Park MN
    Posts
    943
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Grind a bevel on the end to move it a little closer to the drive rolls.

  29. Likes ronsii liked this post
  30. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    2,481
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    When I using Tweco I ground the brass so it would just a few thousand's of inch from the rollers.
    The Miller at time was also made brass but Switch every welder to Tweco.
    This stop the birds nesting with watching the rollers adjustments

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Mine is perhaps closer than in your picture. The liner comes from Miller as I used it. I considered adjusting it, but couldn't move it hardly at all without touching.

  31. #73
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,963
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest


    bead-boy


    Quote Originally Posted by bead-boy View Post
    ""Diags or dikes (a portmanteau of "diagonal cutters") is jargon used
    especially in the US electrical industry, to describe diagonal pliers.""
    Etymology has low traction with this crowd - start in
    the gutter - and maybe you'll be make friends . . .

    hth


    Opus

  32. #74
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    central Wis.
    Posts
    5,495
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    I was thinking more along the lines of where the Dutch boy put his finger.

  33. Likes ronsii, 12V71 liked this post
  34. #75
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    3,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bird Nest

    Surprised there isn't an inlet wire guide after the drive rolls like on larger Miller feeders. One of the features Bernard stresses for Centerfire contact tips is they can be rotated so they don't get oval shaped from being in the same position all the time.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Page generated in 1,621,102,754.13413 seconds with 13 queries