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Thread: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

  1. #26
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    i would like to some heavier jobs in the future, though im not sure what exactly. i was looking to use the electrode consuming as a metering device. I am convinced that i could burn at least one full one without reaching the two minute mark, so i will go off of that for now. thank you very much for your reply.
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  2. #27
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    From what I've seen, you start cooking internal parts. I've found a few welders that were run hard that the coating was coming off the windings.

    Old machines didn't have anything to tell you this was happening, but I've welded until the machine starts welding badly.
    After cooling start right back up unit it welds bad again.
    This will eventually ruin it.

    I overworked my first stick welder. I tig welded with it for way too long on max output. It popped a diode - replaced it and it welded fine again.

    I've seen engine drive machines over worked until the main armature started to come apart.

    New electric welders will just shut off, hopefully before damage occurs.
    But they don't shut off right on the duty cycle, as I understand it, they shut off after you've exceeded the duty cycle.

    An electronics guy explained it to me like this: every electrical component has a life span for heating and cooling cycles. The hotter it gets, for longer periods it is sustained, the life span shortens.
    my understanding is the overload protection shuts machine off as it starts to get too hot, it senses machine has gotten too hot and shuts off. if you rely on that all the time the machine will die eventually, if my understanding is correct. mine does not have any such protection.
    Last edited by buzz box hero; 02-05-2021 at 11:34 AM.
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  3. #28
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by whtbaron View Post
    So this sounds like a dumb question coming from somebody that's welded for over 40 yrs, but what happens when you exceed duty cycle? Is there an internal breaker that trips, does it just flip the main breaker, or do you risk doing damage inside the welder? I've tripped breakers in the main box before, but never had any other problems.
    Sometimes it lets the magic smoke out...

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  5. #29
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    Sometimes it lets the magic smoke out...
    Yep!!! I've burned a few red wirefeeds that way even a couple blue ones although the last blue one was not my fault(sure... they all say that)It was really hot out and the genny ran out of fuel just as I was in the middle of a really long hot (a bit above duty cycle) weld the low voltage of the genny going halfsies with it for 30 seconds made it go POP!!!!! POOOOOF!!!!

  6. #30
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by buzz box hero View Post
    not very pretty, but mostly because i have difficulty getting comfortable
    Attachment 1723969
    Attachment 1723970
    Turn that up to 85amps.

  7. #31
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    Ooooops..........you said you were running at 90amps.

    Turn that down to 85amps

  8. #32
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    the next setting down is 75, i thought that would be too cold. if i had the dc one i think that one has an 85 amp setting.
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  9. #33
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    time it takes to burn a rod usually about 1 minute, obviously depends on amperage.
    .
    use machine on 30 or 40 amp breaker and circuit breaker will trip protecting machine from overheating as fast.
    obviously can use 6 ga wire that can handle 50 amps but still use on a 40 or less circuit breaker. this is a external
    of welding machine overload protection rather than internal to welding machine. sure many newer machines have
    this overload protection built into the machine. but if on a 30 amp circuit breaker that often works too.
    .
    old fashioned machines dont shut off on overheating you usually smell the burning wire insulation smell and it takes
    a long time (often decades) before machine actually fails normally (cause most stop welding an let machine cool when
    they smell the burning wire insulation smell), 225amp machine sure you can burn a big rod or 2 and let cool off
    8 minutes but normally average welding is 150 amps or less. unless welding over 1/2" thick alot which is normally rare
    .
    and even if steel is 1/2" or thicker doing occasional jobs with small rod and using multiple passes is normal especially if welding up
    or overhead.
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 02-07-2021 at 07:42 AM.

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  11. #34
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    Did some welding today on my dads exhaust with his welder. amazingly, it was stick welding with 1/16 rods and without blowing holes!
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  12. #35
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    Odds are it was E6013 1/16"
    It is a low pen rod I used for hole and gap filling. At time it was very common in shops. E6013 Also looks great too.

    The other rod was E7014 it we med. pen rod Also looks great too.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by buzz box hero View Post
    Did some welding today on my dads exhaust with his welder. amazingly, it was stick welding with 1/16 rods and without blowing holes!

  13. #36
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    I have burned 5# a time on buzzers as fast as you can stick them in and never burn one up. They do not have internal thermal.
    Last edited by Sberry; 12-27-2021 at 06:43 AM.

  14. #37
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    Reason they use a 50 breaker is to make sure its not tripping and its not sposed to be used as a thermal li.it in this case
    If the wire is big enough to convert from a 30 to a welder circuit it will work with a 50.

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  16. #38
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by ronsii View Post
    Yep!!! I've burned a few red wirefeeds that way even a couple blue ones although the last blue one was not my fault(sure... they all say that)It was really hot out and the genny ran out of fuel just as I was in the middle of a really long hot (a bit above duty cycle) weld the low voltage of the genny going halfsies with it for 30 seconds made it go POP!!!!! POOOOOF!!!!
    The low voltage and since the Hertz or cycles is suppose to be 60 and now its 30 or less that will burn up most anything.
    Retired - Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician- Iowa
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  17. #39
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    Ya, i got to wonder why some guys burn up se rr machines and none for me and only have came across a couple over the years bur ed up usually by switchi g u der load or not having the tap set securely. I maybe 2 machi es i ever see this on a d i have used a whole garage full of them, even built a semi tanker with o e wired 10 cable 50 ft to the pole.
    Last edited by Sberry; 12-27-2021 at 10:49 AM.

  18. #40
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    it was 1/16 6013. at roughly (according to his machine) 40 amps.
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  19. #41
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    Also agree up and over tends to slow things down especially in a hobby world. Machines turned down a little and they just dont have the need.
    To the OP, this is not something to worry about. These machines been abused for decades doing real work. Lots of farmers, one comes to mind only ever own 1 machine and in the garbage truck dimpster biz. Lots of 5/32.

  20. #42
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    I coming a bit late to the party but one of our sons had one of these and something from the past kept nagging me so I checked the manual for it. It states in both older and newer editions that the duty cycle is 20% in all switch positions. I don't know if they want to keep it simple for less experienced operators or what.

    With that said, for 1/8" or less electrodes I suspect that prep, cleanup between welds or rods and fit-up time will mean that you'll never hit the max duty cycle short of a continuous weld of several feet.

    And the advice to use an undersized breaker for a thermal trip device is not good advice. Breakers that trip a lot are prone getting tired and sometimes will fail to trip as needed or start tripping at lower than normal loads. And if the breaker trips while welding it will kill the cooling fan and increase the chance of heat damage in the power source.
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  21. #43
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    I have abused acouple of buzzers, the dc one too. I would just about pay to see one a beginner burned up. Woud have to hire him for determination.
    Last edited by Sberry; 12-27-2021 at 06:30 PM.

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  23. #44
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    I have used many a machine that tripped many a circuit breaker rather than machine overheating
    on 120 volts its easy to trip a 15 or 20 amp breaker done that hundreds of times
    on 240 volts its harder to do but tripping a 30 or 40 or 50 amp breaker is easy to do especially if
    air compressor is on same circuit as welding machine. in my experience if welding 150 amps or less
    its harder to trip the breaker. usually a 225 amp tombstone with no overheating auto shutoff you smell
    the wire insulation burning if using 3/16" rod and not waiting between rods to let machine to cool off
    .
    250 amp inverter welding with 6ga welding lead cables literally the welding cables will overheat fast at over
    200 amps, ...many cheaper machines not rated for much over 50% max amps for longer lengths of time
    250 amp machine at 125 amps often can weld as fast as you can and never trip the thermal auto shutoff

  24. #45
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    If i had to lean on an AC it would be with any rod i had on hand, if i absolutely had to buy some rod to go with that machine would be 1/8 6011, 3/32 AC7018 and same in 1/8. They are essentially the same as i would want in DC

  25. #46
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    Re: how many stick electrodes within 20% duty cycle

    But i also use many a machine but rarely if ever trip one on thermal that was wired right and operated properly.

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