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Thread: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

  1. #1
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    316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    So I recently got into a field repair of some stainless steel. Mostly 3/16" and 1/4". I always enjoyed running stainless rod and its a breeze in the flat or horizontal. This time I had a 24" vertical fillet and a 24" vertical butt weld. Fought it for hours. Tried up, down, weave, stringer, all kinds of amperage and polarity. Would like some suggestions. If I cant figure something out Im gonna take my suitcase and some stainless wire next time.
    Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.

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    Re: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    I have run 309L & 316L uphill & found that it runs like a 7018 when everything is set up right.

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    Re: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    What I noticed most about weldors that are good with stainless is their vertical up has very distinct steps from pausing longer when weaving using way less heat than they would with 7018. Also don't angle the rod up as much, straight on or even slightly down will give better results. The welds I was most impressed with looked similar to weaved Tig welds on the cap pass on a vessel head.

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    Re: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    A few idea that might get you closer to a good result as well, run alot colder than you normally would, even for a flat weld on stainless, with a 3/32 rod vertical i usually runs somewhere around 45-65 amps, depending on how thick the base material is, start low and only up the amps enough to get it to stop sticking the rod.

    Give yourself a groove to weld into, stainless like to have something to fall into so grind a 40ish thou deep groove with a 1/8 inch cutting disk on a grinder.

    Don't try to weave to much, and don't try to do a heavy pass especially on thin material like 1/4, do a few small stringers with just a "wobble" if that makes sense, stainless like to run with stick, so do small passes so there's less metal to run in the first place.

    once you've got a good handle on running 316 vertical you can start figuring out how to weave, but its alot easier to start with small stringers just to get a good enough job on it.

    Hope this helps.

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    Re: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    I will give it a try. I can remember doing some real nice uphill weaves in the past but it just wasn't working on this job. Does 316 need to be in an oven?
    I mentioned it to a buddy today and he talked about a 315 Stainless rod that burns more like 6010?
    Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.

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    Re: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    Wear safety glasses, stainless slag likes to pop off violently when it cools:

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    Re: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by propanehotrod View Post
    I will give it a try. I can remember doing some real nice uphill weaves in the past but it just wasn't working on this job. Does 316 need to be in an oven?
    I mentioned it to a buddy today and he talked about a 315 Stainless rod that burns more like 6010?
    316 doesn't need to be in an oven like 7018, most places I work at that uses them has a hot box/oven as part of the WPS but with a much lower temp than for 7018, somewhere around 60C.

    As far as 315 stainless electrodes i've never heard of them, I know that AISI 315 stainless steel is a thing, it's a heat treatable stainless, but I've never heard of and I can't find 315 stainless consumables anywhere, 315 is recommended to be welded with E/ER630 which is a precipitation hardening stainless filler, so just going from that I'd say that no, if you can find 315 stainless rods i don't think they'll be a suitable substitute.

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    Re: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bls repair View Post
    Wear safety glasses, stainless slag likes to pop off violently when it cools:
    Keep your mouth closed too. It will stick to your tongue.

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    Re: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    Have had the slag land on my lip. It doesn't always pop off right away and seems to the moment you lift your helmet.

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    Re: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    Keep your mouth closed too. It will stick to your tongue.
    That sucks, when it lands on my lip I instinctively try to flick it with my tongue, then it's 2 burns, one on the lip & one one the tongue & then you invent new four letter words.
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    Re: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    I got some on my eye lid once, somehow got behind my glasses. Luckily a small piece but you can't really do anything but let it burn. By the time you take your glove off and your glasses it's too late.

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    Re: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    What kind of problems were you having, start up porosity, bead to crowned , spill out. I have found running running 10-20 amps below the listed amperage for vertical up works well. Vertical down is usually the higher amperage as listed, but you need to get the right angle after the puddle starts, and keep the arc long enough to keep the flux from over running the bead.

    I have never stored the stainless rod in an oven, but if it gets damp, and the flux becomes crumbly, you can only throw it out. If you try welding with crumbly stuff, it tends to weld pretty crappy.

    Safety glasses are a must , somehow the flux knows when you flip up your helmet. I was welding a stainless tank 2 months ago, flipped up my helmet. Chipped most of it off with a few taps from the slag hammer, went to look at it a little closer, and a piece popped off on its own, and landed on my cheek just below my glasses, and stuck there. !@#$% *&^% +***^%# !



    Looks like lincoln makes an Excalibur stainless rod. I've never used any, mostly Mckay, and Weld-mold, and hobart.

    https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...6L-16/c657.pdf

    https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...-16/c64000.pdf




    316/316L-15
    Flux coating is fast freezing for vertical down welding
    and slag is self-peeling for easy removal
    Smooth bead appearance with evenly spaced ripples
    and flat face
    316/316L-16
    Flux coating provides smooth arc transfer and slag
    is self-peeling for easy removal
    316/316L-17
    Flux coating provides smooth arc transfer in the flat
    and horizontal positions and slag is self-peeling for
    easy removal

    -15 runs on DC+
    -16 runs on AC,DC+
    -17 runs on AC,DC+


    Hope this Helps
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    Re: 316 Stainless is a Vertical Nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttoks View Post
    316 doesn't need to be in an oven like 7018, most places I work at that uses them has a hot box/oven as part of the WPS but with a much lower temp than for 7018, somewhere around 60C.

    As far as 315 stainless electrodes i've never heard of them, I know that AISI 315 stainless steel is a thing, it's a heat treatable stainless, but I've never heard of and I can't find 315 stainless consumables anywhere, 315 is recommended to be welded with E/ER630 which is a precipitation hardening stainless filler, so just going from that I'd say that no, if you can find 315 stainless rods i don't think they'll be a suitable substitute.
    I think he may have meant "316/316L-15" which is a DC only rod rated for vertical down. It doesn't run like 6010, no, more like 6013. Its frequently used for outdoor welding on the low pressure piping for material delivery systems at my facility.

    This is from the Lincoln Electric PDF "Stainless Welding guide " which is 40 pages long but has a lot of good info that will help in selection of filler, and process techiniques.
    10.1
    WELDING WITH THE
    SHIELDED METAL ARC
    PROCESS
    All stainless steel shielded metal arc
    electrode coverings must be protected from moisture pickup.Normally, electrodes packaged in hermetically sealed containers can
    be stored for several years without deteriorating. However, after the container is opened, the coating begins to absorb moisture and,
    depending on the ambient air condition, may need to be reconditioned after only four hours of exposure,
    otherwise porosity may result,especially at arc starts

    WELDING TECHNIQUES FOR SHIELDED METAL ARC WELDING
    Use a short arc without touching the puddle. This minimizes alloy loss in the arc and reduces porosity
    and spatter. Red Baron and Blue Max electrodes can be dragged.

    Weld with a low current consistent with good fusion to minimize heat input for distortion control. The
    low current also reduces penetration when minimum admixture is needed for corrosion resistance and
    cracking or porosity resistance.

    Stringer beads minimize heat input to control distortion. If weave beads must be used, limit the weave
    to 2-1/2 times the electrode diameter.

    Flat beads with good wash-in are needed for easy slag removal, particularly in deep groove welds.

    Fill craters by holding a short arc and moving back over the finished bead before breaking the arc. This
    avoids crater cracks.

    Clean each bead thoroughly before welding over it. Because the slag from lime coated Stainweld
    XXX-15 electrodes crumbles, particular care is needed to remove all particles.

    For vertical and overhead positions, weld with 5/32” (4.0mm) or smaller electrodes. The easiest to use
    vertical-up are Stainweld XXX-15 electrodes. Blue Max electrodes require the widest weave for
    vertical-up. Vertical-down welding is best accomplished with Red Baron -V electrodes.

    For vertical-down welding with Red Baron-V electrodes, use a dragging technique and current towards
    the high end of the recommended range. For vertical-up, Stainweld XXX-15 can be run without weave.
    All others require a weave – a triangle weave or inverted Vee weave works well.

    In the overhead position, Red Baron and Blue Max electrodes work best by a dragging technique.
    Stainweld electrodes work best with a short arc and slight circular motion during steady forward motion.

    Penetration should be only enough to seal openings in root passes and bond to the base plates. Deep
    penetration can cause cracking and loss of corrosion resistance and provides no advantages

    Running MIG stainless vertical up can be a challenge too. Getting the wire speed, and heat setup might take a few practice runs. The weld clean up will be easier, and look better, just have to be careful with the spatter.

    Best of luck
    Last edited by albrightree; 01-09-2021 at 12:03 PM.
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