Is there an Old Brazer that can answer this riddle?

[Jimsan]

I am getting into brazing and bought some mystery Braze rod on EBay. It could have been a mistake.

it is Certanium 50. Copper-Silver maintenance alloy. #14361. Bare rod.

it seems to melt at a lower temperature than Harris silv 45. It is harder to cut with my dikes. I have to dent it then break it off. When it melts it seems to fizz a bit after melting. It wets out on brass pretty easily but the temperature is nearly hot enough to melt the brass. So far I’m not sure if it will be useful for me. It looks like stainless steel but it clearly is not. I tried to braze some scrap stainless but the braze failed to stick even thou it looked like it wetted out. I’m using a simple mapp gas torch.

it was made in the mid 1980’s. Does anyone know the composition? Recommended uses? Flux recommendation? Melting temperature?

[CAVEMANN]

I am getting into brazing and bought some mystery Braze rod on EBay. It could have been a mistake.

it is Certanium 50. Copper-Silver maintenance alloy. #14361. Bare rod.

it seems to melt at a lower temperature than Harris silv 45. It is harder to cut with my dikes. I have to dent it then break it off. When it melts it seems to fizz a bit after melting. It wets out on brass pretty easily but the temperature is nearly hot enough to melt the brass. So far I’m not sure if it will be useful for me. It looks like stainless steel but it clearly is not. I tried to braze some scrap stainless but the braze failed to stick even thou it looked like it wetted out. I’m using a simple mapp gas torch.

it was made in the mid 1980’s. Does anyone know the composition? Recommended uses? Flux recommendation? Melting temperature?

here's some more info & links to check out.

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthrea...azing-rod-help

[tapwelder]

Is the label or stamp in tact? Clearly legible? Positive it is 50?

[tapwelder]

Is the label or stamp in tact? Clearly legible? Positive it is 50?

Just asking. Because, before the internet was smart, I know somebody who spent months searchings for window muttons and only got photos of sheep.

Good luck. Share your findings. Thanks

[albrightree]

Certainium is the trade name used by Lawson Industries, which bought Cronatron Welding systems. When I started at the company I am at now , the company had an account with them(Cronatron). The maintenance guy prior to me didn't really weld but he brazed, and soldered lots of stuff, and was purchasing brazing rod, and silver solder from them, as well as some hardware. The salesman was a nice guy, and would come and check the trays of nut, bolts, and washers, and then do a little demo of a welding product. It was mostly overpriced but some of it was really good, and since he was a nice guy, and brought coffee , we would buy a tray of hardware , or some welding stuff from him. Lawson products bought Cronatron systems several years ago, and they started offering more MRO products. I really liked their Stainless steel welding rods, their tig lengths came in really nice containers, they have a really low temp silver solder that works almost anything and some of their maintenance welding rods (the overpriced rods for stud/bolt removal)were good too. As a maintenance department it wasn't a big deal to pay a few more dollars to buy a 2lb 5lb,or 10lb package of specialty rod or wire. If you see the stuff for sale, and its in good condition, and the price is right I wouldn't hesitate to pick it up at cheap price. If they tell you certainium is almost as good as unobtainium, and price it as such, just say no thanks.






It is unfortunate that the salesman retired after the death of his wife, they never sent a new salesman. I think the prices for franchises on those tool guys is too high, and nobody picks up their territory. The internet has changed things alot too. My company used Chromate Industrial (another nut and bolt company that maintains trays) until they got bought by Winzer, just wasn't the same, and my boss hated the new salesman ( the first time he made a sales call he showed up in a T-shirt, shorts, and Tennis shoes, and told my boss we had to order "x" amount of stuff from him).


What do you want to braze with this ? It sounds like its the cronatron 45 from the other thread, good for copper stuff. All the Steel/Stainless steel silver brazing rod I've used made by them was flux coated(red,orange). Hope you got it cheap enough to prove useful. I'm still cleaning the stuff off of all the stainless stuff the guy before used it on. I have to say, none of the brazed joints has broken.

[cwby]

Call Lawson & ask them - I do not find a Certainium 50, but there is a 51F, 52/52F & a 52-CF. 51F is a 73,000psi rod.
1.800.843.0763

[vwguy3]

Just asking. Because, before the internet was smart, I know somebody who spent months searchings for window muttons and only got photos of sheep.

Good luck. Share your findings. Thanks

All he had to do was search muntins.

[tapwelder]

All he had to do was search muntins.

Yeah, he became quite familiar with window parts after that. Dude called all over the country looking for steel Tee-stock for window muttons for antique windows. Never was he corrected.

That is what i am told, anyway.

[tapwelder]

Is the certainium all stick electrodes.?

[cwby]

Looks like thye use Certainium reference on Stick, mig wire, TIG filler & brazing alloys. All with different numbers. Most is very expensive it seems.

Found a Cronitron 338 rod that is supposed to weld galvanized metal with zero prep, 72k with no grinding. Price - $632.00 for 25#

Pretty hard to navigate there website & you may have to register to see prices.

[jeffrey.penfield]

If this was made in the 80’s, it might have Cadmium in it. Cadmium lowered the melting point but Cadmium is toxic and was replaced with the more expensive silver.


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[albrightree]

I found some hidden behind the OxyAcetylene set-up. Good to have when you need it. Used to join stainless steel part together with fillet, cronatron 40(orange) doesn't flow too much. Cronatron 41(red) flows more readily, and the capillary action can be used to make airtight high temperature pressure joints. Many of the different formulations were available with, and without flux.

[Jimsan]

I paid 100.00 per pound for the rod.

[Jimsan]

It is all bare rod. It looks white. It is hard to cut.

[tapwelder]

At a glance prices seem high. However, I priced Harris 45 silver bare wire locally at $98 for 5 troy ounces last week.

[Jimsan]

I finally figured out how to upload a picture of the rod label.

[Welder Dave]

I'd make a somewhat educated guess it's a discontinued cadmium bearing BAg-1a alloy.

https://princeizant.com/uploads/Tech...S_4770_TDS.pdf

[Jimsan]

Thanks, that seams like a good guess. That alloy has more cadmium than Copper though and so it seems strange to call it copper-silver. I will definitely rig up an air hood before playing with it much more. I have only been successfully doing simple joints with mild steel. Hard stainless has not worked as of yet. It may be technique or temperature or in compatible flux. I will see if I can get it to stick to Nickel-copper alloy.

[Welder Dave]

I can't see a company using a completely different numbering system for their brazing than the industry standard. The 50 certainly points to 50% silver and maintainence alloy points to general purpose. What does the white tag on the package say?

[Jimsan]

The while label is a warning label that seems to be generic.

[Welder Dave]

I thought it might have a spec. listed for the rods like BAg-1a.

[jeffrey.penfield]

If you paid $100 per pound and it has 50% silver, you paid $200 per pound of silver and that is a bargain for the silver in it. But the low price is probably from the Cadmium. Cadmium is both toxic and carcinogenic which means you can get sick right away and later develop cancer. What are you trying to braze together and is it really worth the risk? How many pounds did you buy? Does anybody know how to smelt these rods and separate the silver from the other metals?


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[idacal]

I haven't seen anyone mention it. what kind of flux your using also plays a part in it. I have some silver solder with cadmium I also use a high temp black flux but I dont know anything about attempting stainless