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Thread: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

  1. #26
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    DC current is much safer in wet conditions. Voltage is another area where some people get their panties in a bunch. 110, 115, 120 or 220, 230, 240 are used interchangeably all the time. Pretty much all welders have 10% line voltage compensation so it's not a big deal what voltage is mentioned. About the only time actual voltage is required is when trouble shooting a problem.

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  3. #27
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yofish View Post
    Is a pizzle a dick?
    I can't help you with this one. That's not even in the elevator dictionary!


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    It's like the 220-240V thing -- anytime anyone mentions a "220 circuit," as sure as the sun will come up tomorrow, some pedant will jump on and correct them.

    WTF cares?
    I like the ones that ask me how can you call 220/230/240 "single phase"?



    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    Well whatever you call the clamp I'll tell you this. If I have someone helping me that isn't real experienced and tell them to hook up the work clamp they would be looking for some type of C clamp or visegrips. If I say ground clamp they know exactly what that is.
    Once I was welding at the house. I asked my daughter to hand me that, as I pointed. She said "this squeezie thinga majiggy?" So, I commonly find myself favoring that term for the ground clamp!!!
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonath108 View Post
    Hi everyone,

    Is it safe to put your ground clamp on the metal table the work is on, when stick welding ?
    I saw a video where Kevin Caron said you could get a shock if you touched or leaned on the table.
    It is a portable table and I have a 12" square piece of 1/2" steel.
    I always where the proper welding Apparel as well as good gloves.
    I do at times lean on the table, or at-least touch it with my gloves hand.
    Thanks in advance,
    jonath
    If the table is rusty you could get one that wakes you up, but you need a nice coat of rust to do it, the rust can flash.


    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  7. #29
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yofish View Post
    Always, always to the work unless the work is SERIOUSLY clamped to what ever pole, + or -, your whatever is attached to. It's the path of least resistance. And mind your ground clamp (I don't know why the guy above has a problem with that because THAT is what it's been called since before time) weather the polarity is + or -. Ground clamps need attention!
    For anything nice, the table is permanently grounded and then we take another lead with a ground clamp and connect the workpiece to the grounded table.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  9. #30
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    "Ground" is a word that's used in ways it was never meant to be used.

    When speaking of house current.....................the "ground" wire is simply a current carrying conductor which carries current back to the source when there's a "ground fault"(a piece of equipment gets "hot" when there's a wiring problem, and the current is on the surface of the equipment enclosure). This provides a low impedance pathway to the transformer, and causes the breaker to trip. The only reason it's actually "earthed" at the first disconnect, is to provide a pathway to earth for lightning, and lightning only.

    Same with a welder. The work lead is simply a current carrying conductor that returns current to the transformer. The welder might be "grounded" (improper use of word, but it's commonly used so it gets the point across), as any other piece of equipment is, but again.............it's a low impedance return circuit to enable the circuit breaker to operate. Secondarily........like any other piece of equipment........lightning will be earthed when the "ground" wire is connected to that piece of equipment.

    Mike Holt had an interesting discussion regarding excessive grounding on multiple pieces of expensive equipment. He stated, if I remember correctly, that an individual earth ground on each piece of equipment will actually be more harmful, because it provides a path for lightning through the equipment to ground, rather than a common pathway to the single, code required, earth ground. I need to look that up again to verify, but I'm pretty sure that was the crux of the article.

    Electricity isn't my strong point. Buying Holt's book on bonding, and grounding, really set me straight. Or it at least made me more dangerous

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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    "Ground" is a word that's used in ways it was never meant to be used.

    When speaking of house current.....................the "ground" wire is simply a current carrying conductor which carries current back to the source when there's a "ground fault"(a piece of equipment gets "hot" when there's a wiring problem, and the current is on the surface of the equipment enclosure). This provides a low impedance pathway to the transformer, and causes the breaker to trip. The only reason it's actually "earthed" at the first disconnect, is to provide a pathway to earth for lightning, and lightning only.

    Same with a welder. The work lead is simply a current carrying conductor that returns current to the transformer. The welder might be "grounded" (improper use of word, but it's commonly used so it gets the point across), as any other piece of equipment is, but again.............it's a low impedance return circuit to enable the circuit breaker to operate. Secondarily........like any other piece of equipment........lightning will be earthed when the "ground" wire is connected to that piece of equipment...
    When I was wiring up a 100A circuit for my Sync 250, I got confused about something-or-other and called Miller, and I'm pretty sure it was a Miller tech who told me that the ground wire on my 100A welder circuit (the ground wire that goes to the sub-panel and from there back to the main house panel) needed to be the same size as the two hots, "even though it doesn't carry current."

    Mine is not to reason why...

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  13. #32
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick-man View Post
    I can't help you with this one. That's not even in the elevator dictionary!




    I like the ones that ask me how can you call 220/230/240 "single phase"?





    Once I was welding at the house. I asked my daughter to hand me that, as I pointed. She said "this squeezie thinga majiggy?" So, I commonly find myself favoring that term for the ground clamp!!!
    I love that, my daughters when they were young used to come out to see what I ws up to. They would always ask questions and call different stuff odd names like that. The very best one was when Molly my youngest came out when I was rebuilding a motor for my wifes car. I was workin in the mines at that time and was a welder and mechanic as well as a miner and was covered in coal dirt like most days, so she comes out and asks if she can help. I said sure so she is askin questions about this and that and handing me stuff. I had the lifters in a coffee can full of oil, and asked her to hand me one when i needed it. I look around at her when I needed another one and she has her hand buried in the can of oil, oil on her arms and on her face. I asked her what that was all about. She says I think its really cool the way you come home all greasy and dirty evry day and do more of this stuff and just wondered what it was like to be dirty like that. God love that little lady, it actually made me feel good that day.I taught that little girl to weld when she was 9 years old and in one day she was weldin vetical with a 5/32 7018 and overhead the next day.

    Makanzie learned too after her little sister became a welder at 9 years old. I would bring parts from shovels, mostly teeth, and other hardware and they would come out and ask to weld, so I would show em what was goin on and go get a cup coffee. I woukd come and they woukd be arguin whos tuyrn it was to burn a rod.

    Sorry I got off the topic there, but yes you will be fine putting your ground clamp or work clamp or sqeezie thinga majiggy on your workbench.
    Last edited by Popeye an old miner; 02-14-2021 at 08:09 AM.

  14. #33
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    "Ground" is a word that's used in ways it was never meant to be used.

    When speaking of house current.....................the "ground" wire is simply a current carrying conductor which carries current back to the source when there's a "ground fault"(a piece of equipment gets "hot" when there's a wiring problem, and the current is on the surface of the equipment enclosure). This provides a low impedance pathway to the transformer, and causes the breaker to trip. The only reason it's actually "earthed" at the first disconnect, is to provide a pathway to earth for lightning, and lightning only.

    Same with a welder. The work lead is simply a current carrying conductor that returns current to the transformer. The welder might be "grounded" (improper use of word, but it's commonly used so it gets the point across), as any other piece of equipment is, but again.............it's a low impedance return circuit to enable the circuit breaker to operate. Secondarily........like any other piece of equipment........lightning will be earthed when the "ground" wire is connected to that piece of equipment.

    Mike Holt had an interesting discussion regarding excessive grounding on multiple pieces of expensive equipment. He stated, if I remember correctly, that an individual earth ground on each piece of equipment will actually be more harmful, because it provides a path for lightning through the equipment to ground, rather than a common pathway to the single, code required, earth ground. I need to look that up again to verify, but I'm pretty sure that was the crux of the article.

    Electricity isn't my strong point. Buying Holt's book on bonding, and grounding, really set me straight. Or it at least made me more dangerous

    For sure in fact, many a welding machine outputs a ground-clamp voltage that is above or below ground or neutral building voltage. Even building ground and neutral voltage may vary by 20 or more volts depending on where you are in the building. You have to be careful when welding and connecting the welding machines ground-clamp to tables that have other tools on them that have grounded casings. You can either melt the ground wire in the cord of the power tool laying on the welding table or feel the differential when you connect the two with your body or a damp glove. I noted that the three-phase DC generator welders were notorious for that. When it happened the resistor windings in the welding machine would glow and I would yell across the shop to the guy to shut it down, and then we would see how he was connected to the building ground. You could hear the difference in the sound of the machine.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    "Ground" is a word that's used in ways it was never meant to be used.

    When speaking of house current.....................the "ground" wire is simply a current carrying conductor which carries current back to the source when there's a "ground fault"(a piece of equipment gets "hot" when there's a wiring problem, and the current is on the surface of the equipment enclosure). This provides a low impedance pathway to the transformer, and causes the breaker to trip. The only reason it's actually "earthed" at the first disconnect, is to provide a pathway to earth for lightning, and lightning only.

    Same with a welder. The work lead is simply a current carrying conductor that returns current to the transformer. The welder might be "grounded" (improper use of word, but it's commonly used so it gets the point across), as any other piece of equipment is, but again.............it's a low impedance return circuit to enable the circuit breaker to operate. Secondarily........like any other piece of equipment........lightning will be earthed when the "ground" wire is connected to that piece of equipment.

    Mike Holt had an interesting discussion regarding excessive grounding on multiple pieces of expensive equipment. He stated, if I remember correctly, that an individual earth ground on each piece of equipment will actually be more harmful, because it provides a path for lightning through the equipment to ground, rather than a common pathway to the single, code required, earth ground. I need to look that up again to verify, but I'm pretty sure that was the crux of the article.

    Electricity isn't my strong point. Buying Holt's book on bonding, and grounding, really set me straight. Or it at least made me more dangerous
    All our subpanels get a ground rod by code. That ground rod also stops high frequency that goes right through neutral or ground wiring to equipment in the building or house.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  18. #35
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    "Ground" is a word that's used in ways it was never meant to be used.

    When speaking of house current.....................the "ground" wire is simply a current carrying conductor which carries current back to the source when there's a "ground fault"(a piece of equipment gets "hot" when there's a wiring problem, and the current is on the surface of the equipment enclosure). This provides a low impedance pathway to the transformer, and causes the breaker to trip. The only reason it's actually "earthed" at the first disconnect, is to provide a pathway to earth for lightning, and lightning only.

    Same with a welder. The work lead is simply a current carrying conductor that returns current to the transformer. The welder might be "grounded" (improper use of word, but it's commonly used so it gets the point across), as any other piece of equipment is, but again.............it's a low impedance return circuit to enable the circuit breaker to operate. Secondarily........like any other piece of equipment........lightning will be earthed when the "ground" wire is connected to that piece of equipment.

    Mike Holt had an interesting discussion regarding excessive grounding on multiple pieces of expensive equipment. He stated, if I remember correctly, that an individual earth ground on each piece of equipment will actually be more harmful, because it provides a path for lightning through the equipment to ground, rather than a common pathway to the single, code required, earth ground. I need to look that up again to verify, but I'm pretty sure that was the crux of the article.

    Electricity isn't my strong point. Buying Holt's book on bonding, and grounding, really set me straight. Or it at least made me more dangerous
    I guess to be more technical you could say the welder's workpiece-clamp, as it is not directly connected to a building ground wire. Some welding machines workpiece-clamp will actually ARC to the welding machine's casing if the case is properly grounded and bonded to building ground.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  20. #36
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    We got a contract to weld roll-off containers for about six months. And when I would connect the workpiece clamp of the welder to the container, it would spark, but not change the sound of the welder much, and the resistive coils in the welder would not glow. But you could tell there was a differential between the workpiece clamp of the welder and container sitting on the asphalt, you could feel it if you had damp gloves.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  22. #37
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    For anything nice, the table is permanently grounded and then we take another lead with a ground clamp and connect the workpiece to the grounded table.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Thank you William
    I only weld outside with a portable table. I have a 100 amp service which is grounded just outside the shed , which is close to where I weld. Service has a disconnect. Not sure if this helps. I also have a pvc table near where I weld, where I put my grinder and any other tools I may need. I am only a hobbyist, so I always take a break if I am getting sweaty.
    jonath
    Last edited by Jonath108; 02-14-2021 at 11:07 AM.

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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Thank you again, William.
    jonath

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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by djd775 View Post
    Lot of pissing and moaning over the name of that clamp thing. For what itís worth, that clamp has continuity to the ground prong of the 6-50 plug on my welder.
    I think some of the pissing and moaning is because people didn't notice the smiley face.

    If that ground prong is energized something is wrong.
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by G-ManBart View Post
    It's a work clamp, not a ground clamp

    I have no idea why so many folks call it a ground clamp...

    It simply stems from convention. Same reason we say, at least here in the US, "MIG" even though it's technically "MAG"; for if you walk into a welding store and say you are looking for a MAG welder, 999 out of 1000 people will look at you funny, even if you are technically correct. It's just one of those terms that stayed "stuck" with things.
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    When I was wiring up a 100A circuit for my Sync 250, I got confused about something-or-other and called Miller, and I'm pretty sure it was a Miller tech who told me that the ground wire on my 100A welder circuit (the ground wire that goes to the sub-panel and from there back to the main house panel) needed to be the same size as the two hots, "even though it doesn't carry current."

    Mine is not to reason why...
    Hey...............I messed up.......the green is actually called a grounded conductor IIRC. I'll double check later in the day. We have to start out watering and feeding routine, which can take hours in this cold

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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonath108 View Post
    Thank you William
    I only weld outside with a portable table. I have a 100 amp service which is grounded just outside the shed , which is close to where I weld. Service has a disconnect. Not sure if this helps. I also have a pvc table near where I weld, where I put my grinder and any other tools I may need. I am only a hobbyist, so I always take a break if I am getting sweaty.
    jonath

    One of the worst accidents that you can have is that a can of spray paint or other flammable-aerosol-can is laid on the welding table that is connected to the welding machine's workpiece clamp that either the stinger or something the stinger is touching makes contact with the spray paint can. I had a friend that got burned up badly by such an accident.


    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    It simply stems from convention. Same reason we say, at least here in the US, "MIG" even though it's technically "MAG"; for if you walk into a welding store and say you are looking for a MAG welder, 999 out of 1000 people will look at you funny, even if you are technically correct. It's just one of those terms that stayed "stuck" with things.
    If you MIG (Molten electrode, Inert, Gas) you need Argon, helium, or another inert gas to weld with. If you MAG (Molten electrode, Active, Gas) you can use any Argon Co2 mix, Argon, and oxygen-mix, or just about anything you like.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

  35. #44
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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    One of the worst accidents that you can have is that a can of spray paint or other flammable-aerosol-can is laid on the welding table that is connected to the welding machine's workpiece clamp that either the stinger or something the stinger is touching makes contact with the spray paint can. I had a friend that got burned up badly by such an accident.


    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Yep, or like dropping a can of ether on the batteries of something your trying to get running

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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronsii View Post
    Yep, or like dropping a can of ether on the batteries of something your trying to get running
    I suppose that would get you running.
    ---Meltedmetal

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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joegreen02 View Post
    If you donít get shocked or occasionally set yourself on fire are you really even welding?

    Seriously though. Itís perfectly safe. Hell, Iím setup where my ground is clamped on a bare spot on the bed of the truck so if need be I can pull my hot lead and do work right on the bed or in the Vice at any given time.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I am partial to the occasional steam accident that blows the skin off your flesh. But being on fire is a lot of fun too. I remember thinking after putting on a new flannel shirt I got for Christmas and feeling it light up that I should have asked for the BB gun. I do not know what this one shirt in-particular was made of but it went up like gasoline. That is why I love what Carhartt does with their jacket material, I get big weld splatter balls on my jacket and they just bounce off amazing material even after washing many times.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronsii View Post
    Yep, or like dropping a can of ether on the batteries of something your trying to get running
    Did you ever notice how slow time moves when something like that happens. It is like you are watching it in slow motion. Never detonated the ether but I have knocked over the can near the battery and just watched it in slow motion.


    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronsii View Post
    Yep, or like dropping a can of ether on the batteries of something your trying to get running
    Just a rule I made up for myself, only wear jackets with metal zippers for that reason. My friend couldn't get the burning jacket off because the plastic zipper melted.


    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    I am partial to the occasional steam accident that blows the skin off your flesh. But being on fire is a lot of fun too. I remember thinking after putting on a new flannel shirt I got for Christmas and feeling it light up that I should have asked for the BB gun. I do not know what this one shirt in-particular was made of but it went up like gasoline. That is why I love what Carhartt does with their jacket material, I get big weld splatter balls on my jacket and they just bounce off amazing material even after washing many times.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Yeah, like when people use lots of fabric softener on their clothes and then a spark hits it Kaahfwooosh ... more or less a surface burn but it sure wakes em' up!!!

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    Re: Where to put the ground clamp when stick welding ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meltedmetal View Post
    I suppose that would get you running.

    LOLROF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good one

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