How's Everybody Dealing With This?

[gatemaster]

The way to prevent that small nipple to the pressure switch from freezing is to get it out of the water line. I used to always have this problem. Many years ago I drilled out the nut on top of the water tank, tapped it for a pipe thread, and put the pressure switch up there where it sees nothing but air. No water in the pressure switch line, no more freezing, no more problem with that.

More recently I completely redesigned my system and brought the water tank and pressure switch inside the basement. That solved a water pressure problem I was having inside the house, but that's another story.

[William McCormick]

I know it's not welding, but I figured it would be seen better here. Apologies up front.

Attachment 1724566

We're simply not used to single digit temperatures here in OK, and our wells are not set up for it.

I have less than adequate heat tape on the system. No insulation on the well house. And just plain ol' have a mess right now

Used the heat gun to thaw the nipple for the pressure switch, and she kicked back on. I'm sure that the nipple is almost completely blocked by rust. It gets this way about every 3 years. So, I'm thinking that even running the water wasn't enough to keep such a small volume of static water warm enough to keep it from freezing. The pressure switch is the only part of the system that doesn't flow like the supply pipes, so it has to be warmed by the water below in the supply pipe.

I need a new nipple when this is over, but for now I'm using a small ceramic space heater in the well house to keep this area warm. It's working fine so far. We have about 4 more days of this crap.

And, you can bet I ordered some more heat tape

Was a bit scary. This well not only supplies the house, it also supplies the cattle in the drylot.

If you get a hold of a piece of "rub" pipe insulation, the heavy wall stuff will protect the pipe with a trickle of water. It was called Armor Flex for years, now they call it "rub." It is a dense tiny cell foam that is insanely good at stopping the heat. You can slit it and then contact cement it back together around the pipe. You can get it a size bigger if you are going to warp the pipe with the pipe heater. It is what we wrap refrigeration lines with to keep them from sweating. It also comes in all thickness sheets a 1/2" thick 3' by 4' piece is about $22.00 it takes high heat and extreme cold.


Sincerely,

William McCormick

[whtbaron]

Lots of good suggestions here, but for all the cold you're going to see, a bit of insulation and a light bulb hanging in there would probably cure all the problems you'll ever have.

[ronsii]

Lots of good suggestions here, but for all the cold you're going to see, a bit of insulation and a light bulb hanging in there would probably cure all the problems you'll ever have.

True!!! there are tons of setups like that around here!!! and every now and then I fix them because nobody EVER does preventive maintenance on them one I was in last week very old pressure tank... air bladder is shot probably been that way for years!!! so eventually it runs out of air in the water section of the tank and starts to really short cycle the pump anyways this pump house(3.5 foot square by 7 foot tall) has about 8 inches of clearance around the 2 foot diameter tank!!! so any work has to be done leaning in through the 'door' about 26 inch opening wooden structure with shake siding,no insulation, 1 inch gap above the door! they just keep an aluminum reflector light fixture(120v) hanging about 10 inches above the pipe with the pressure switch and non-working gauge on it.... oh best part of all... two overhead single 10ga copper wires running about 100 foot from the house roof to power it... and the pump is a 240v pump so that 60 watt light bulb ain't real bright but will last a lifetime LOL!!!! but the neutral return for the light does connect on to the iron pipe and well casing oh and poly pipe run to the house...in case you were thinking it gets ground back to the house that way.... I guess it sorta does through the water.... electrolysis

[farmersammm]

Attachment 1724604


Ahh Queensland, beautiful one day, perfect the next.

[12V71]

True!!! there are tons of setups like that around here!!! and every now and then I fix them because nobody EVER does preventive maintenance on them one I was in last week very old pressure tank... air bladder is shot probably been that way for years!!! so eventually it runs out of air in the water section of the tank and starts to really short cycle the pump anyways this pump house(3.5 foot square by 7 foot tall) has about 8 inches of clearance around the 2 foot diameter tank!!! so any work has to be done leaning in through the 'door' about 26 inch opening wooden structure with shake siding,no insulation, 1 inch gap above the door! they just keep an aluminum reflector light fixture(120v) hanging about 10 inches above the pipe with the pressure switch and non-working gauge on it.... oh best part of all... two overhead single 10ga copper wires running about 100 foot from the house roof to power it... and the pump is a 240v pump so that 60 watt light bulb ain't real bright but will last a lifetime LOL!!!! but the neutral return for the light does connect on to the iron pipe and well casing oh and poly pipe run to the house...in case you were thinking it gets ground back to the house that way.... I guess it sorta does through the water.... electrolysis

You forgot the no shortage of Black Widow spiders part... My well house also has two 8' flourescent fixtures so I can see to fix things too.
PS... I spray for spiders at least twice a year, hate the creepy things.

[farmersammm]

Thanks guys, now I have something to work with. I think I can make it better with all the suggestions.

Now if I can just get the loader going I never put a water separator on the new Allis (one without the hood),, and the fuel lines are frozen up We'll have to use the Oliver tomorrow to put hay out...............which is gonna be fun since the hay is sitting on the trailer

All the other tractors have water separators on them, and this never happens. I had it happen once about 22yrs ago, and everything got a water separator the very next week.

I believe I heard on TV that this is a historical event down here. I can remember it going down to zero in the past, but not for days on end like this. I think we are looking at about 9-10 days total on this event

And K'kins is stuck at home till it thaws. I'm starting to get on her nerves

[ronsii]

You forgot the no shortage of Black Widow spiders part... My well house also has two 8' flourescent fixtures so I can see to fix things too.
PS... I spray for spiders at least twice a year, hate the creepy things.

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LOL!!!! Yeah we gots some spiders too... mostly brown ones though.

[farmersammm]

Negative 19 here now. When I was a kid we had a few of the cattle waterers that sat on a concrete slab. Metal enclosure with styrofoam insulation. The bowl portion was electrically heated and there was an outlet inside the lower base. From about mid October to April heat tape was always plugged in and the colder months a 150 watt heat lamp bulb was also used. I can't recall that freezing up , but spigots inside the barn freezing on occasion. Anyways, the high density foam insulation goes a long ways with a little heat source. A insulated enclosure that is partially set down into the soil will go a long ways. For extra effect banking it with hay, straw or even snow will further help with freezing.

I've found, over the years, that letting the top layer freeze on the stock tank keeps things good. I just chop a large enough hole in the frozen layer so they can stick their heads in to get to the liquid water. The frozen "cap" keeps that lower layer from freezing. I dunno how it's gonna be for another few days though, it's getting a bit dicey. Best thing to do is to break the ice completely after a few days, let them drink it down, and keep it running till it's full again....................then let the thing freeze over again and repeat the cycle. PITA

[ronsii]

I've found, over the years, that letting the top layer freeze on the stock tank keeps things good. I just chop a large enough hole in the frozen layer so they can stick their heads in to get to the liquid water. The frozen "cap" keeps that lower layer from freezing. I dunno how it's gonna be for another few days though, it's getting a bit dicey. Best thing to do is to break the ice completely after a few days, let them drink it down, and keep it running till it's full again....................then let the thing freeze over again and repeat the cycle. PITA

Yeah, sometime we'll put stock tank heaters in them but usually it's just break em' a hole in the morning.. although some of the four legged beasts are smart enough to break it them selves... if it isn't too thick

[whtbaron]

And K'kins is stuck at home till it thaws. I'm starting to get on her nerves

.... and now we're back to the real reason you're going to need a better heated shop for retirement.

[shortfuse]

Yeah, sometime we'll put stock tank heaters in them but usually it's just break em' a hole in the morning.. although some of the four legged beasts are smart enough to break it them selves... if it isn't too thick

I wonder if cattle and horses get "brain freeze" drinking almost frozen water like we get eating ice cream!!!

[John T]

Cattle don’t have brains.

[Willie B]

A man who died 117 years ago harvested a natural spring on Dorset mountain. He built a local water system. Biggest problem for 100 years was too much pressure. I get about 250 PSI here.

In 1990 the Federal government bullied us into giving up our system. They paid 2/3 of the projected cost of a new system. It should have cost 1.2 million. It ultimately cost 2.3 million, it seems the contractor's lawyer was WAY smarter than the Federal Government. Ultimately, 200 households had to pay the 1/3 of the 1.2 million plus the 1.1 million the feds failed to predict. I pay $1400 a year for water. Some of my neighbors drilled wells, only to learn most of the cost is in the form of property tax. Drill your own well, you save $104 a year.

Oh well, I digress. Here, it is always cold. Modern wells are tapped 7' below ground where the water exits. It runs to a tank in the cellar, or a closet in a mobile home. If you can't spare closet space, under your mobile home, you build a depression in the slab. You use Styrofoam to make a four sided vault. let a gallon seep through overnight, it will never freeze.

Old way was a small room underground for all this. I HATE them! corrosion destroys everything! No owner has ever practiced preventative maintenance. 100% of trouble calls are on weekends, 100% are after dark. "yes, I ignored your advice. Yes, I waited until the worst time. Fix it! I can't flush my toilet!"

[Willie B]

Cattle don’t have brains.

Cattle almost don't have brains. Set up a stepladder behind a cow, it doesn't matter how docile she is, she will knock your ladder down. Drop a screwdriver behind a cow, it does not matter how fast you pick it up, she will $hit on it.

Aside from that, a cow has a stride of 20". Follow cattle tracks, prints are 20" apart. Not a reason in the world they couldn't step over a 12' gutter. A cow lives average 20 years. Four times a day for 20 years they pass over the gutter. 100% every day, a herd of cattle, Might be 300 cows, one will fall trying to jump over the gutter. They do not need to jump.

I rate brains as Jellyfish are a little bit smarter than cows.

[Willie B]

Lots of good suggestions here, but for all the cold you're going to see, a bit of insulation and a light bulb hanging in there would probably cure all the problems you'll ever have.

Yes!!!!

[Leogl]

If you have a small pump you could hang in the tank and discharge back into tank and keep it circulating in might not freeze as fast

[Leogl]

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/0...ransparent.png

[Leogl]

Sorry I am not good at posting sites

[ronsii]

Sorry I am not good at posting sites

https://www.watermoover.com/

[idacal]

I'm sure its dealt with by now, but if not, and its available get some home depot batt insulation they might be out! then wrap the tank and pressure switch together put the box cover back on and leave the water running outdoors with a healthy trickle what are you dealing with 10-15 degrees outdoor tempeture ? if no insulation is available just some old blankets just make sure the heat in the tank can reach the pressure switch. ground water comes out of the ground 50 degrees or higher so the water running through the pressure tank should be enough to keep the nipple unfrozen with just a little bit of insulation help.

[Willie B]

I'm sure its dealt with by now, but if not, and its available get some home depot batt insulation they might be out! then wrap the tank and pressure switch together put the box cover back on and leave the water running outdoors with a healthy trickle what are you dealing with 10-15 degrees outdoor tempeture ? if no insulation is available just some old blankets just make sure the heat in the tank can reach the pressure switch. ground water comes out of the ground 50 degrees or higher so the water running through the pressure tank should be enough to keep the nipple unfrozen with just a little bit of insulation help.

Yes, and each pound of water has to surrender 746 BTU to freeze. If water moves at all, there isn't enough heat transfer to let it freeze. Now, the bit of water in the riser tube to the pressure switch barely moves. It has time to surrender its heat. You gotta find a way to keep that above 32F. Usually that involves blanketing it with the warmth of moving water, or a heat source like a light bulb. LEDs don't throw much heat.

[scsmith42]

Sam, I have three wells here on the farm. Two of the three have insulated well houses (one is around 4' square, the other around 5'). Both are well insulated, with heat tape on the PEX.

I used to turn a heat lamp on inside them when it got cold, but a few years ago got smart and installed some high quality Dayton thermostats from Graingers inside them and wired them to an outlet. The heat lamps plug into the outlet and now come on when the temp hits 33F. Bulbs last a lot longer and less to remember.

My third well does not have a cover - only concrete block around part of it. It has heat tape wrapped around everything, along with foil / bubble insulation with an old troublelight inside. I plug the troublelight in when it gets below freezing. One day in the future I'll build a well house and add the Dayton thermostats.

[ronsii]

Well...well....well It sounds like you got plenty of water

[bigb]

When I was a kid we lived outside Chicago and the well pump and tank were under the house beneath a trap door in the bathroom floor. Dad just hung a 100 watt bulb over it all winter and it never froze. With LEDs pretty much taking over I have saved all the incandescent bulbs I come across, I have lots of 90 watt outdoor floods which work great at directing the heat in one direction due to the reflective back. When it occasionally freezes here I just plug them in and point them at the outdoor spigots and irrigation valves. If you can get some 130 volt bulbs they hold up better, that's all a "rough service" bulb is, 130 volts. It has a thicker, tougher element.