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Thread: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

  1. #51
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    I don't want to be a downer but if it needed to be designed by an engineer you don't have the required skill or experience to even attempt a weld repair. Have someone experienced have a look it. It's not a DIY project for a beginner. It's going to be very dirty being out in the elements, especially being so close to the water.
    I agree.
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  2. #52
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    I think a better question is, Would you do it as your first job on aluminum with no experience and outside to boot?

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  4. #53
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    I think a better question is, Would you do it as your first job on aluminum with no experience and outside to boot?
    Agree. Have the engineer come up with the welding procedure, then hire an experienced weldor to weld it out. Reminds me of a telemetry company that insisted on my crew repair weld a 6 foot diameter by 10 foot tall aluminum riser base casting destined for Japan. A crane operator dropped and broke a mount off. I wrote the procedure and had their management sign off on it. Then I build a windscreen around the area and we ground the bevels inside and out and mig welded it with 5356, then dressed the welds flush. All this overnight and the winds were howling pretty good. Only reason they insisted we weld it was because we had the skills to do so competently.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  5. #54
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    I knew a shop that specialized in aircraft and specialty welding. They did a ton of aluminum everyday. They used to repair a lot of aluminum semi-wheels that got cracks around the valve stem. They'd grind around the hole and cracks, preheat and weld them up. Then drill a new hole for the valve stem. There may have been more steps as well. They never had a problem with their repairs failing. Apparently now Alcoa says it's illegal to weld or heat on their wheels. I'm guessing a few people tried it as DIY project without the experience and they failed.

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  7. #55
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noidea87 View Post
    ]



    I don't trust my welding that much haha. I'm trying to advance my skills .I've built a few things but not with aluminum. I trust it enough that I could weld in a patch to repair it. I wouldn't trust my welding to weld in a whole new support though
    Then definitely do not try an extremely difficult repair. Mig or spool gun is not the dream tool to repair that in the first place, it is used mostly on new stuff ideally. The reason is once you start you have to keep going. With TIG you can place one bead at a time if you like, stop grind, and restart without a problem, Spool gun you have to be totally prepared and just go. The other problem is that the diagonal support looks like it has been structurally compromised. Perhaps you could weld on plates over the damaged area, but then you have to ask yourself if another hurricane came along would that now stronger than normal support possibly destroy the verticles because it is so much stronger? Rather than plastically deform as it did in a wind storm.

    If I was given the job I would just cut it out and put in a new one.

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    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  9. #56
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noidea87 View Post
    This is, I think 1/4" aluminum tubing. We are setup with a spool gun and would like to try and repair this. How would you guys do it?
    Attachment 1725139Attachment 1725138
    But the actual problem here is that your engineer used architectural-aluminum rather than structural aluminum. That is why the corners separated like that. Over time even without a hurricane that could come apart from the constant flexing.


    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Architectural = 6063, whereas structural = 6061? Or architectural = sharper corners than structural?

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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwmelvin View Post
    Architectural = 6063, whereas structural = 6061? Or architectural = sharper corners than structural?
    No matter what someone calls box tubing with round outside corners it is structural box tubing providing the inside corners also have a proper radius. Square outside and inside corner material is architectural material and is not made to flex. But when engineers trained in counterintelligence centers misdesign the world they try the smoke and mirrors with terminology to hide the collapse of engineering. But that square corner stuff is for architectural purposes not structural.


    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  14. #59
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwmelvin View Post
    Architectural = 6063, whereas structural = 6061? Or architectural = sharper corners than structural?
    You can use the square corner stuff for small things that do not move. But for anything that flexes you need the round inside and outside corner stuff. Most people never stop and look at the difference between a structural angle and an architectural angle. There are big differences in their look and a huge difference in how it deforms upon destruction. But I have seen people use both in the wrong places because the structural angle is most common to keep people from using the architectural angle on a structural application. So when someone does a repair on a fancy thing they put in a piece of structural angle when it should have been architectural. And then occasionally someone will get a hold of a few lengths of architectural angle and that is all they use on structural projects.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Last edited by William McCormick; 02-28-2021 at 12:22 AM.
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  16. #60
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Thanks. Is structural (rounded edge) always 6061 whereas architectural (square edge) is always 6063? Those were the materials of the tubing I bought, just wondering if itís usually the case? I suppose like most things, there is a variety of materials for each product.

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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by william mccormick View Post
    most people never stop and look at the difference between a structural angle and an architectural angle. There are big differences in their look and a huge difference in how it deforms upon destruction.

    Sincerely,

    william mccormick
    pics ??
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  18. #62
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    No matter what someone calls box tubing with round outside corners it is structural box tubing providing the inside corners also have a proper radius. Square outside and inside corner material is architectural material and is not made to flex. But when engineers trained in counterintelligence centers misdesign the world they try the smoke and mirrors with terminology to hide the collapse of engineering. But that square corner stuff is for architectural purposes not structural.


    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    So what you are saying is that the corners on the inside create stress risers and cause premature fatigue and intergranular corrosion? A thicker wall tube will remedy that without trying to find a custom shape. I like the saddle reinforcement idea as well.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  19. #63
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Congratulations on the want to learn. Too bad you didn't mark the break to see IF it is still growing as you stated that the pics are a year old. As stated by other folks, once you get welding the aluminum, there is no break ... keep moving and MOVING is for real. Also, as William Mc stated, it does appear that the structure in the pic is architectural tubing. Once you make a repair and add some extra support to that area, you will be placing force somewhere else, BUT, since the structure is going to be replaced, the repair is viable. I and I'm sure the others in here wish you well. Keep us posted.

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  21. #64
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    So what you are saying is that the corners on the inside create stress risers and cause premature fatigue and intergranular corrosion? A thicker wall tube will remedy that without trying to find a custom shape. I like the saddle reinforcement idea as well.
    You would need the extruder to figure out and test some pieces to see what is the right size radius inside the tube to keep it from cracking from stress. To be honest, though you really need the outside to be rounded as well to call it structural box tubing. Because tears start on sharp corners much more easily than round corners, the square corners were for looks many years ago, not for structure. But some new engineer comes along half-cocked and starts ordering and using the architectural for structural purposes and next thing you know many are doing it.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  23. #65
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    pics ??



    This is architectural like you will often find in Home Depot https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/...hoC2VsQAvD_BwE

    Name:  Archeitectural aluminum angle.png
Views: 200
Size:  170.3 KB


    This is structural like you would get from an aluminum supply house. https://www.metalsdepot.com/aluminum...BoCuyQQAvD_BwE

    Name:  Structural Aluminum Angle .png
Views: 198
Size:  362.5 KB



    You might think the tapered ends on the legs would cause a tear but by actual experiment, they do not. It has to do with time during flexing and bending and passing off the load to different areas overtime during flexing. The old guys that designed this stuff were no joke they learned hands-on and then created the math for others.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  25. #66
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    This is architectural like you will often find in Home Depot https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/...hoC2VsQAvD_BwE

    Name:  Archeitectural aluminum angle.png
Views: 200
Size:  170.3 KB


    This is structural like you would get from an aluminum supply house. https://www.metalsdepot.com/aluminum...BoCuyQQAvD_BwE

    Name:  Structural Aluminum Angle .png
Views: 198
Size:  362.5 KB



    You might think the tapered ends on the legs would cause a tear but by actual experiment, they do not. It has to do with time during flexing and bending and passing off the load to different areas overtime during flexing. The old guys that designed this stuff were no joke they learned hands-on and then created the math for others.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Thanks.

    Good Info.
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  27. #67
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    So what you are saying is that the corners on the inside create stress risers and cause premature fatigue and intergranular corrosion? A thicker wall tube will remedy that without trying to find a custom shape. I like the saddle reinforcement idea as well.
    Believe it or not the Architectural extrustion was the custom shape. The rounded corner structural aluminum was the common shape. Things change over time and words morph into madness. In marine use, the sharp corners inside and outside start corrosion like a sponge soaking up water. Aluminum actually does soak up water, on a humid day, an aluminum structure will weigh more than on a dry day. Grumman would weigh his planes and found that there was a couple of hundred pounds difference on a wet and dry day, which could mean one more or less seat in a plane.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormck
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  29. #68
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    You will be able to put architectural angles over the outside of the present pieces, but not structural due to the radiused inside corner. You also might want to use unequal angle just in case you will be building a new box. You'll get it.

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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillE.Dee View Post
    You will be able to put architectural angles over the outside of the present pieces, but not structural due to the radiused inside corner. You also might want to use unequal angle just in case you will be building a new box. You'll get it.
    ......
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    CR

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  32. #70
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    So what you are saying is that the corners on the inside create stress risers and cause premature fatigue and intergranular corrosion? A thicker wall tube will remedy that without trying to find a custom shape. I like the saddle reinforcement idea as well.
    I-beams made by Bethlehem Steel used to have rounded edges. They were structural steel beams, nowadays the steel beams can come so sharp that they can cut you, I would say that makes them architectural. Probably why the newer buildings come down like they are undergoing demolition by professionals. That and under-sizing of beams.


    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  34. #71
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwmelvin View Post
    Thanks. Is structural (rounded edge) always 6061 whereas architectural (square edge) is always 6063? Those were the materials of the tubing I bought, just wondering if itís usually the case? I suppose like most things, there is a variety of materials for each product.
    An extruder can make you anything you like if you are ordering enough, that is why I would not just blanketly say all architectural is 6063 and all structural is 6061 because that certainly could be untrue. The 5052-H32 architectural angle is becoming more common but has been around for a while. 6063 was a common angle in structural style here by me. Then that manufacturer goes out and the new manufacturer acts like you are an insane clown that does not know what material you were ordering, using, and welding. It is a strange world out there. Then when you show them the documentation they say, yea they made that custom we do not have that.

    But here by me, most of the structural radius corner box tubing is 6061-T6 which means it does not anneal properly, it creates coarse grain in the metal if you bend it. 6061 T6511 lets you anneal it or even just heat it and bend it. But most structural-tube is just 6061-T6 material.


    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  36. #72
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    A lot of people including myself will build something out of a steel square corner tube rather than a structural rounded corner tube, either because we know what it will do upon destruction or we just have no clue whatsoever. When I used to build boat moving equipment I would use the structural round corner steel tube. It is a higher quality tube and welds much nicer than the architectural square corner tube.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  38. #73
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    You would need the extruder to figure out and test some pieces to see what is the right size radius inside the tube to keep it from cracking from stress. To be honest, though you really need the outside to be rounded as well to call it structural box tubing. Because tears start on sharp corners much more easily than round corners, the square corners were for looks many years ago, not for structure. But some new engineer comes along half-cocked and starts ordering and using the architectural for structural purposes and next thing you know many are doing it.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    I don't think and aluminum extruder would take the time to engineer a customer's problem on a super small quantity requirement. That is the job of the engineer of record for this structure. I think it would be easy enough to bolster this design at the weak link. Could also be just a bad section of tube. I personally think the liability of repair repairing this is too much without engineering input. The design is 90% effective and doing the wrong thing could make it worse. Interesting though that the structure still stands even with this damage.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  39. #74
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    I've been messing around today dialing in settings. Definitely took a few tries to get travel speed down. This is on 1/8"Name:  20210302_085910.jpg
Views: 127
Size:  107.2 KBName:  20210302_085423.jpg
Views: 133
Size:  117.6 KB

  40. #75
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    Re: How would you repair this crack in aluminum tube?

    You need more heat. Turn your volts around 20-21 and if using .035 wire, around 370 ipm

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