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Thread: newbie here

  1. #1
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    newbie here

    Hi
    I have no welding experience. I am trying to figure out the best way to weld new exhaust plumbing for my car. I have some mild steel to stainless vbands i need to weld. I'd like the weld to be semi pretty and strong, but I'm not sure what welder to get or even the right filler. The most information I've got so far is 309 filler maybe works. Does 309 cover filler for all types of welders mig tig and stick?

    I also have some aluminum piping to V bands as well. I have no idea what filler I'd use. My aluminum tube doesn't get more than a 1/4 inch thick.

    George
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    Re: newbie here

    Welcome

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    Re: newbie here

    I would STRONGLY suggest that you get some experience and basic knowledge before attempting this, the aluminum cannot be welded to steel or stainless.
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    Re: newbie here

    Quote Originally Posted by CAVEMANN View Post
    I would STRONGLY suggest that you get some experience and basic knowledge before attempting this, the aluminum cannot be welded to steel or stainless.
    I strongly suggest the OP pays somebody with some real experience to do it right. That kind of experience does not happen overnight. Plus I smell SPAM cooking.

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    Re: newbie here

    309 filler is correct. We are doing some cooling system piping with those same bands to 1018 steel tubes. I only tig those and ran them on a rotary table.

    Sure buy yourself a welder and tack, but let someone with lots of muscle memory under their belt weld it out.
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    Re: newbie here

    The problem is I don’t know anyone who welds. Finding a class on it is pretty expensive for what I’m trying to achieve. I did go to a muffler shop and got part of the exhaust done close to the cat, but he used stick and for what I thought would be a little more professional looked like the dogs dinner. I’m sure it will hold and all, but I’m fairly sure I can do better. I was looking at a prime weld welder, but even those are 800 dollars and by the time you buy the argon tank id be in it 1000 dollars. If it don’t work out I might as well have got the muffler guy to do it. I might rent one, but it’s knowing which welder to get and is there different filler brands I should be aware of? And I’m aware aluminum doesn’t weld to steel. I said I was a newbie not a dummy. I have aluminum v bands. With covid going around it doesn’t make me want to explore shops that much either. If you know anyone in west Houston that would be cool.

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    Re: newbie here

    Wow....there is so much going on here it's hard to know where to start. Having no welding experience and trying to jump right into TIG, dissimilar metals, and aluminum is on the far end of ambitious.

    If you can find a TIG to rent, I'd say do that before you do anything else. Bring it home and try to just lay down a bead on mild steel....straight, level, nothing but adding filler to a flat piece of steel. Then try a couple of joints sort of similar to what you'd need for the exhaust parts....something roughly the thickness of the tubing and the V band....see what happens. If you can get that all sorted out and aren't worried by the fact that aluminum is going to be a couple of times harder, then plan to do the actual project.

    Filler brand doesn't matter and you'd need a machine capable of AC for aluminum. You have to plan for roughly 1 amp per thousandth of an inch of material, but you can often get away with a bit less than that....just makes things harder. A Primeweld 225X will pretty much be maxed out on 1/4" aluminum, but it would handle it.
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    Re: newbie here

    Quote Originally Posted by G-ManBart View Post
    Wow....there is so much going on here it's hard to know where to start. Having no welding experience and trying to jump right into TIG, dissimilar metals, and aluminum is on the far end of ambitious.

    If you can find a TIG to rent, I'd say do that before you do anything else. Bring it home and try to just lay down a bead on mild steel....straight, level, nothing but adding filler to a flat piece of steel. Then try a couple of joints sort of similar to what you'd need for the exhaust parts....something roughly the thickness of the tubing and the V band....see what happens. If you can get that all sorted out and aren't worried by the fact that aluminum is going to be a couple of times harder, then plan to do the actual project.

    Filler brand doesn't matter and you'd need a machine capable of AC for aluminum. You have to plan for roughly 1 amp per thousandth of an inch of material, but you can often get away with a bit less than that....just makes things harder. A Primeweld 225X will pretty much be maxed out on 1/4" aluminum, but it would handle it.
    what filler would I be using for aluminum?

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    Re: newbie here

    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMEO123 View Post
    what filler would I be using for aluminum?
    It depends upon a number of factors. 4043 and 5356 are the two most common aluminum filler rods, but 5356 isn't recommended for situations where it regularly gets over 150*F even though it has better ductility and shear strength. I only say that because you mentioned exhaust systems.
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    Re: newbie here

    Quote Originally Posted by G-ManBart View Post
    It depends upon a number of factors. 4043 and 5356 are the two most common aluminum filler rods, but 5356 isn't recommended for situations where it regularly gets over 150*F even though it has better ductility and shear strength. I only say that because you mentioned exhaust systems.
    Thank you MUCH for the info! Most if not all the aluminum I have to weld is for the intake air system, which should be pretty cool. There is a turbo on the car and as such has an intercooler. That's the only thing I can think is above 150 degrees. But the piping going frpm the turbo into the intercooler is steel. So probably the brackets I may have to weld on to the cooler would get hot only. I have watched some youtube videos and after a lot of yacking about nothing important I have seen them put argon through the tube of the pipe on steel with a foil end to cap it off. Is this the same for aluminum? Or does it matter?

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    Re: newbie here

    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMEO123 View Post
    Thank you MUCH for the info! Most if not all the aluminum I have to weld is for the intake air system, which should be pretty cool. There is a turbo on the car and as such has an intercooler. That's the only thing I can think is above 150 degrees. But the piping going frpm the turbo into the intercooler is steel. So probably the brackets I may have to weld on to the cooler would get hot only. I have watched some youtube videos and after a lot of yacking about nothing important I have seen them put argon through the tube of the pipe on steel with a foil end to cap it off. Is this the same for aluminum? Or does it matter?
    Doesn't need to be done on Aluminum.

    You can search Back Purging Stainless steel to find out why it is needed on Stainless and also Titanium.

    Welcome to the forum.

    Tig welding is not a cheap endeavor - If you think this will only be a One Off situation then hiring it out is probably the way to go.

    But if you think you'll have more and more projects down the road then the cost of hiring someone gets $$$, so spending the money on a Tig set up makes sense.
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    Re: newbie here

    OP you don't list your location. Is there a technical school or vocational training place near you? Look in the phone book or on line for a welding shop near by. You do not have to now a welder to get something welded. Pay for it to be done correctly if you want it done correctly

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    Re: newbie here

    I'm in West Houston if you know anyone that can help that would be great. I'm looking at this welder https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equip...ck-tig-welder/ Do you think this would do what I need it to?

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    Re: newbie here

    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMEO123 View Post
    I'm in West Houston if you know anyone that can help that would be great. I'm looking at this welder https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equip...ck-tig-welder/ Do you think this would do what I need it to?
    yes but it is a Lift Arc Tig process- search the ol' inter webs on that Tig function.
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    Re: newbie here

    You're in Houston, there's numerous muffler/exhaust shops, I'm also reasonably certain that there are some speed shops that could do it.
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  18. #16
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    Re: newbie here

    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMEO123 View Post
    Hi
    I have no welding experience. I am trying to figure out the best way to weld new exhaust plumbing for my car. I have some mild steel to stainless vbands i need to weld. I'd like the weld to be semi pretty and strong, but I'm not sure what welder to get or even the right filler. The most information I've got so far is 309 filler maybe works. Does 309 cover filler for all types of welders mig tig and stick?

    I also have some aluminum piping to V bands as well. I have no idea what filler I'd use. My aluminum tube doesn't get more than a 1/4 inch thick.

    George
    Hi George, as someone who has been turning wrenches for a long time, you sure have a great deal of confidence in your innate ability! Over the years, I've paid to have various projects that I was building welded on and more often, I was fortunate enough to have friends with skills and equipment help out because of our shared passion for vehicles. Sometimes, under a watchful eye, I even had the chance to try my hand behind their equipment. I've got a fair degree of manual dexterity, and all that I can say is that a skilled welder makes it look easy... I'm in my fifties and and I've just now purchased my first welding machine. It's a Primeweld mig 180, certainly not a top tier unit, but based on my inquiries, it shows be adequate for my needs. I also purchased a budget table and clamping fixtures and other tools to make the learning and skill building be less problematic. Like you, the project I'm working on is turbocharged and intercooled. Mine involves a engine swap, so after enough practice, I'll be modifying some accessory brackets and since my Primeweld came with a spool gun, I'll try my hand at eliminating a few silicone junctions in my aluminum I/C piping provided my practice proves fruitful enough. I've got a bunch of other equipment on my list, but a TIG machine is on the list for me too. It wasn't apparent in your previous posts, but it seemed like you're intending to jump right into your project w/o practice? Whilst I certainly appreciate the A-Team attitude, some practice IMHO would serve you well. Please post pictures of your work! Good luck!

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