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Thread: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

  1. #51
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    I have the hammer type crimper that I got from the copper industry when they closed the mine here, I was flown in after the closure to arrange & gather parts for rail cars & Locomotives as well as some specialized tools for them, I found the crimper in some small stuff & asked the guy who was taking us through & he said "take it", so I did, they work great & I've used it in a vise many times. Such a simple design that works.
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  3. #52
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    Quote Originally Posted by CAVEMANN View Post
    I have the hammer type crimper that I got from the copper industry when they closed the mine here, I was flown in after the closure to arrange & gather parts for rail cars & Locomotives as well as some specialized tools for them, I found the crimper in some small stuff & asked the guy who was taking us through & he said "take it", so I did, they work great & I've used it in a vise many times. Such a simple design that works.
    I bought one on ebay or maybe HFT several years back, but then I never remember where it is on the rare occasion that I need it...

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  5. #53
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    Aluminum lugs on copper wire would last about 38 minutes in a marine environment before disappearing into thin air.
    Actually I miss-spoke. The Burndy lugs we use are copper lugs. Similar to this one.
    https://www.specialized.net/burndy-y...-awg-pink.html

  6. #54
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    [QUOTE=Kelvin;8807571]I bought one on ebay or maybe HFT several years back, but then I never remember where it is on the rare occasion that I need it...[/QUOTE
    I take pictures of my basement walls and shelves and try to keep an inventory on as many items as I can.
    Works pretty good, but I still need to go looking thru stuff at times

  7. #55
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    I use a stripped copper conductor of correct size to wind tightly around the stripped welder cable, like a Boy Scout manual shows whipping the end of a rope to prevent fraying.

    It then is an excellent next step to "tin" it with solder.
    Tin what? The bare wire strands stripped for the ground clamp? I disagree. Where the solder flows is stiff. Rght where the solder ends takes 100% of any flexing often leading to metal fatigue and breaking.

    metalmagpie

  8. #56
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmagpie View Post
    Tin what? The bare wire strands stripped for the ground clamp? I disagree. Where the solder flows is stiff. Rght where the solder ends takes 100% of any flexing often leading to metal fatigue and breaking.

    metalmagpie
    It turns out I am wrong.
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  9. #57
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    Solder is fine as long as you don't let it wick up the cable so it is beyond the pressure point and it is able to fatigue.
    Big part of what I make is all fine strand super flexible silicone spaghetti wire with nickel plated steel crimp connectors and they are all soldered.

    Soldered correctly then heat shrink protected to move the fatigue point well into the wire so no stress occurs at the barrel or from solder if it did happen to wick through and out the barrel which you try not to let happen.

    You have to have a really large hot iron. You solder the strands only where they have passed through the crimp but you have to be fast at heating terminal and tip of wire so you can get the heat off before it wicks up the copper and exits the barrel like you don't want to let happen.

    Doesn't apply to load side of welder of course but solder is not legal for general wiring even in conjunction with mechanical connectors. The NEC specifically states that the connectors must be used in accordance with manufacturers instructions so that effectively makes soldering not legal according to the NEC as no manufacturer is saying to solder first.
    Last edited by danielplace; 03-30-2021 at 09:43 PM.

  10. #58
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    Yet it's pretty common to get dimmers, smoke alarms, and a wide variety of other devices with tinned stranded leads. Presumably, these are UL or other lab tested with solder. These are shipped with generic "wire nuts"
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  11. #59
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    Even factory tinned wire by itself is OK it was done by manufacturer. The old rubber/cloth covered wire was all tinned because the rubber would attact the copper if it wasn't tinned.

    That isn't making connection using solder but most devices use solder. Most tinned leads are leading into the unit and soldered to the circuit board but all UL stuff not regulated by the NEC.

  12. #60
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    The splices Tesla first used on knob & tube wiring used solder Those I have dealt with are up to 115 years old now. I have seen two fail over a 50 year career, I believe they were poorly executed, and it took several decades to fail. I SURE can't say that about wire nuts!

    I know an electrician, once had a sizeable crew. He, and his crew would wire a whole building leaving the wires hanging out of the boxes. They were twisted tight. They then went around with a lead ladle full of molten solder, and dip solder each connection. Several State Electrical inspectors challenged his right to do so. They went to battle with the wrong man! Each of them lost. Ultimately, he was deemed correct in his practice. I'm not aware he ever had a failed connection.

    I don't do that because the twisted section of insulated conductor + the twisted stripped portion total about four inches of very stiff stuff. It is then miserable to fold wires into a box.

    110.14 (B) Splices. Conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use or by brazing, welding, or soldering with a fusible metal or alloy. Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered. All splices and joints and the.........
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  13. #61
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    I like solder as long as it is for super low resistance connection but not wicked out beyond the mechanical crimp it must also have. Like for a crimped stack-on. I despise them just crimped on actually. They need plastic thrown away, crimped solder where wire pokes through the crimp barrel then heat shrink tube over it all so fatigue point is in the good wire well out beyond the termination.

    I know about the code you posted. I do know not know what code contradicts it and makes soldering a problem if done right but are you going to rubber tape and black tape it like they used to do. You can't solder then add a wire nut or any other connector. Even a Buchanan may not be legal on solder joint.

    They argue you would never want just a twisted joint and solder only. If it heats up and solder melts away it could set up high resistance and start a fire. That is the problem it needs twisted, soldered and then mechanical connection too but the mechanical connection isn't legal so they don't want you doing it at all.

    You can try but you will almost certainly get rejected by the AHJ if you start soldering your splices. Could you win a fight ? You never win a fight with AHJ because they can and will make your life miserable if you ask for it. For what to prove a point.

  14. #62
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    The USCG has heartburn with soldered connections due to boat vibration and resulting fatigue failure at the stiff-to-flexible stress riser created by the solder.

    I hate crimps alone in a marine environment due to salt always eventually getting in there and galvanic corrosion/resistance/failure. Even if you shrink-tube it, eventually it seems that salt gets EVERYWHERE.

    Belt AND suspenders is the best way, I guess. I also try to immobilize wire junctions in boats to slow down fatigue. And shrink wrap everything, and then put liquid electrical tape over the shrink wrap and whatever ain't shrink-wrapped gets hosed down with CRC Corrosion Inhibitor wax/grease/tar spray. It's an ongoing battle.
    Last edited by Kelvin; 03-31-2021 at 09:59 PM.

  15. #63
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    I like solder as long as it is for super low resistance connection but not wicked out beyond the mechanical crimp it must also have. Like for a crimped stack-on. I despise them just crimped on actually. They need plastic thrown away, crimped solder where wire pokes through the crimp barrel then heat shrink tube over it all so fatigue point is in the good wire well out beyond the termination.

    I know about the code you posted. I do know not know what code contradicts it and makes soldering a problem if done right but are you going to rubber tape and black tape it like they used to do. You can't solder then add a wire nut or any other connector. Even a Buchanan may not be legal on solder joint.

    They argue you would never want just a twisted joint and solder only. If it heats up and solder melts away it could set up high resistance and start a fire. That is the problem it needs twisted, soldered and then mechanical connection too but the mechanical connection isn't legal so they don't want you doing it at all.

    You can try but you will almost certainly get rejected by the AHJ if you start soldering your splices. Could you win a fight ? You never win a fight with AHJ because they can and will make your life miserable if you ask for it. For what to prove a point.
    The book specifically allows soldered joints. Text goes on to say how to insulate twisted soldered joints.
    I don't choose to use them indoors for reasons of my own but AHJs are supposed to enforce code, leave the creating code to code making panels. My belief is that a wire nut connection installed in compliance with manufacturer's instruction is a good connection as long as it isn't subject to adverse conditions.
    I believe twisted & soldered joints spread the surface of contact over more area so they do not behave like high resistance connections. The solder protects the copper from oxidation which usually plays a role in high resistance connections. I wouldn't dream of connecting automotive lighting without solder. Those connections never fail. VT is saltier than the Dead Sea. Mechanical splices at the rear of a vehicle don't last long, solder is pretty much forever.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  16. #64
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    Re: Help needed for Copper Tweco 300 work clamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    The book specifically allows soldered joints. Text goes on to say how to insulate twisted soldered joints.
    I don't choose to use them indoors for reasons of my own but AHJs are supposed to enforce code, leave the creating code to code making panels. My belief is that a wire nut connection installed in compliance with manufacturer's instruction is a good connection as long as it isn't subject to adverse conditions.
    I believe twisted & soldered joints spread the surface of contact over more area so they do not behave like high resistance connections. The solder protects the copper from oxidation which usually plays a role in high resistance connections. I wouldn't dream of connecting automotive lighting without solder. Those connections never fail. VT is saltier than the Dead Sea. Mechanical splices at the rear of a vehicle don't last long, solder is pretty much forever.
    Working in Palm Beach, Broward and Dade counties all my life you learn they do in fact enforce plenty that is not in the NEC. They have many local codes that they do in fact enforce. Local code is the book of pet peeves.

    Wire color code is one. For 277/480 they will flat fail you if it is wired Brown Orange Yellow been this way for almost 20 years now.
    You must use Brown Purple Yellow and the wire #4 and smaller they require to be the color of the phase. No phase tape allowed.
    Orange is only for wild leg of 240 3 phase Delta.

    2" rigid riser out of meter cans as a minimum.

    Moved from there to Ocala(Marion county) and oh my God the abortions these electricians install up here is horrible and they get past inspection.

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