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Thread: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

  1. #1
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    Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Since the original post got The 502 Bad Gateway disease I guess ill start over

    The bucket i started is now on hold... I cut the old busted floor out of it and the owner thinks he can get a brand new bucket cheaper than rebuilding the old one....I dont know if he is right on that thinkin or not...right now what hes got is useless

    So tomorrow me and Joes young lad are gonna come up with a plan for the moldboard or frog as some call it. The young lad woukld like to use some 1 1/4 inch AR plate we have at the shop, Im sure i can use that my only question is drilling the holes, Ive never drilled holes in AR plate before, Ive got a mag drill that i can use Hogan bits with, will the gold colored titanium bits drill ar plate or is their better bits available? Maybe cobalt bits?

    What I have done is cut them with a torch and ream em with an end grinder but Tyler (Joes young lad) would rather drill them if possible

    Any thoughts from you folks that might have tried it would be appreciated

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    This is what we will be workin on

  2. #2
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    Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Dont know the answer but Im following along to see what the answer is.

    I used to make my own sod harvester blades and used an iron worker for the holes but they were only 5/16 diameter through 1/8AR.


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  3. #3
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    I didnt know they made ar plate that thin...I figured 3/8 was as thin as it got, and the last I welded anything 3/8 was a very long time ago

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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    I have not had much luck drilling ar with a mag drill. I’ve seen literature on trak-star bits for railroad iron but haven’t tried any.

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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    The last time I drilled AR I used normal HSS bits spun slow, but flooded them with coolant. I did dull a few, don't get the bit or base metal hot or you are done with that hole. But I think a mag base Hogan with sharp cutters would work better. Same thing, flood with coolant. I would grind the millscale where you drill. That stuff is diamond hard on tooling! And Hogans ain't cheap! Most of the AR that we drill, the machinist use a ceramic insert drill. Maybe if all else fails grab a machinist handbook and see about reshaping a normal bit to a flatter angle for hard mat'l. Been awhile, but I thought I saw that in there. What AR are you using? Most of ours is 450-500 or Tricon Tri-braze. If is a slide wear with no impact it is NB plus overlay, cheap but works. What size holes?

    I think with that bucket, he may get one cheaper, but with a lousy wear package. Seems they forget that part costs alot.
    Still snow on the ground? Spring thaw here, soupy wet.
    Last edited by MISSING LINK; 03-21-2021 at 10:42 PM.

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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    I know that instructions that come with poly floor liner says that on ar dump beds to heat the spot cherry red then drill your holes. I have drilled some 1/4” ar in a drill press with a new cobalt bit without problems but it was only a 3/8 hole
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  7. #7
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Maybe find if someone makes a pre drilled frog. Drilling holes yourself will become labor intensive $ wise.
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    I think farming it out might be the way to go.



    I know there would be some HAZ problems adjacent to the hole, but I'm not convinced it would amount to a hill of beans. i've read that nitriding only goes about .010 deep. Water jet cutting an option?

    https://kotlyn.com/ar400-abrasion-re...t%20off%20saws.

    Some crap, it just pays to send it out.

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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Any way you look at it gonna cost some money to either get a moldboard ready made which is about a week or so away from today, or layout and drill the holes, so Tyler talked to some folks who deal with this stuff and they told him these moldboards are usually mild steel, he said are you sure about that and they assured him it was so. So if somebody is gonna make some money doin it Tyler and Joe and me all are in argreement it might as well be us makin the money. The plate for the moldboard arrived this afternoon so tomorrow I will be layin out the holes and then be a mag drillin maniac, there might be another guy who can run another drill if he dont get sent to another job somewhere. I already got the drawing made up for the hole layourt so thats done.

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    I bolted up the 2 corner bits and clamped the inner edges on the old moldboard to draw up the layout of the holes on paper yesterday afternoon

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    I cut the moldboard out this morning and cleaned it up
    Last edited by Popeye an old miner; 03-23-2021 at 08:16 PM.

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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    A couple of shots of the excavator bucket with the floor cut out of it, Tyler is still waitin for an answer on this one

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    It needs a new toothbase on the one corner too. Id really like rebuild this thing, they are a lot of fun to work on. But then again anything I do I consider fun. Most folks tell me Im nuts and crazy. I guess its the challenge of the whole thing...thinkin faster than the iron, buildin something that when Im done is almost indestructable and belive it or not the dirt. I love coal dirt, I grew up in it and never left it I guess

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  12. #11
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by MISSING LINK View Post
    The last time I drilled AR I used normal HSS bits spun slow, but flooded them with coolant. I did dull a few, don't get the bit or base metal hot or you are done with that hole. But I think a mag base Hogan with sharp cutters would work better. Same thing, flood with coolant. I would grind the millscale where you drill. That stuff is diamond hard on tooling! And Hogans ain't cheap! Most of the AR that we drill, the machinist use a ceramic insert drill. Maybe if all else fails grab a machinist handbook and see about reshaping a normal bit to a flatter angle for hard mat'l. Been awhile, but I thought I saw that in there. What AR are you using? Most of ours is 450-500 or Tricon Tri-braze. If is a slide wear with no impact it is NB plus overlay, cheap but works. What size holes?

    I think with that bucket, he may get one cheaper, but with a lousy wear package. Seems they forget that part costs alot.
    Still snow on the ground? Spring thaw here, soupy wet.
    Yeah there are still a few spots that have snow or ice, it was pretty deep up on the mountain and the spots where the sun dont hit still have snow. I think it was 1994 I went for a walk in early June up on the winter side of the mountain here and there was still snow under some blown over trees and under some rocks...that was a cold winter and we had about 10 foot of snow on the ground in Febuary

  13. #12
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    I think farming it out might be the way to go.



    I know there would be some HAZ problems adjacent to the hole, but I'm not convinced it would amount to a hill of beans. i've read that nitriding only goes about .010 deep. Water jet cutting an option?

    https://kotlyn.com/ar400-abrasion-re...t%20off%20saws.

    Some crap, it just pays to send it out.
    Thats a neat machine. I was talkin to one of the fellas from another company in the same racket we are in. He said what they always did to drill AR plate was heat up the area you got to drill cherry red on both sides and drill, use lotsa cuttin fluid and it will drill like mild steel. So I learned somethin new today.

  14. #13
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    So today I layed out the holes in the moldboard and drilled em and then did a test fit

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    Fixin to drill the last hole

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    And then this happens...of course it does...damn near busted my fingers too. I got a little frisky feedin the bit

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    Test fit... she bolts up real nice. altogether doin the layout about 6 hours, one man, me. 4 hours doin the layout, check it check it check it check it as you go then check it all again, 2 hours drillin

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  16. #14
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Kinda fuzzy pic but it looks like you have the frog flush with cutting edge.
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mla2ofus View Post
    Kinda fuzzy pic but it looks like you have the frog flush with cutting edge.
    Yes it is, both sides are flush, tommorrow i will cut the bevel to weld it on and put some dogs on it to hang it on the blade. The leading edge can either be trimmed back an inch or so or I can leave it there and then it will wear down as far as they want it to wear and then turn the edges around. Ive done it both ways already it dont really matter. The way these guys are they might just wear the whole damn thing off in a year and then I can do it all over again

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  19. #16
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Popeye an old miner View Post
    Yes it is, both sides are flush, tommorrow i will cut the bevel to weld it on and put some dogs on it to hang it on the blade. The leading edge can either be trimmed back an inch or so or I can leave it there and then it will wear down as far as they want it to wear and then turn the edges around. Ive done it both ways already it dont really matter. The way these guys are they might just wear the whole damn thing off in a year and then I can do it all over again
    Yeah, it wont hurt to leave it long and let it wear down. I've done a few scrapers that way. One trick I used on scrapers was to put about 3 extra long bolts in the bit so you could see them scratching in the cut and know it was time to drop or flip the edge... If the operators caught it.

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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    Yeah, it wont hurt to leave it long and let it wear down. I've done a few scrapers that way. One trick I used on scrapers was to put about 3 extra long bolts in the bit so you could see them scratching in the cut and know it was time to drop or flip the edge... If the operators caught it.
    If the operators caught it...that being the key phrase...I dont know if these guys even look, But hey it keeps me busy and busy boys are happy boys

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  22. #18
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    I'm glad I don't have to skin that cat. That'll be like trying to cut an overcooked round steak with a case knife!!
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  23. #19
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mla2ofus View Post
    I'm glad I don't have to skin that cat. That'll be like trying to cut an overcooked round steak with a case knife!!
    I believe you lost me there...skin what cat?

  24. #20
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    You've worked how many yrs in mining and have never heard of a catskinner??
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  25. #21
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mla2ofus View Post
    You've worked how many yrs in mining and have never heard of a catskinner??
    Close to 50 years...nope never heard that one related to mining. Ive done skin the cat on monkey bars, Ive heard the expression there is more than one way to skin a cat and I have skinned a bobcat i shot when I was young fella.

    So enlighten me to this one....I can see that this will get to be kinda like the discussion we had about the frog and the moldboard and I enjoyed that discussion

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  27. #22
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    It must be a regional dialect thing. About everywhere I've worked in the west that's what I've always heard them called.
    You probably already know this, but after cutting the bevel you should check the opposite edge with a good straight edge for warpage. Could make for a bad day to get it welded in and the holes don't quite line up.
    Ol' Stonebreaker
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  29. #23
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mla2ofus View Post
    It must be a regional dialect thing. About everywhere I've worked in the west that's what I've always heard them called.
    You probably already know this, but after cutting the bevel you should check the opposite edge with a good straight edge for warpage. Could make for a bad day to get it welded in and the holes don't quite line up.
    I believe you are right about the regional thing, yup i checked it with a straitedge and took a few minutes too bolt up the cuttin edges for another test fit, all went well with it, I hung it on the blade today and tommorrow morning Im gonna cut out and tack up some gussets for on the bottom, it didnt have none, but it will when Im done with it. Then start weldin it out

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  31. #24
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Catskinner is what we call the tracked bulldozer operator. Unless you opperate a rubber tire bulldozer, then you are a rubber bull. I was a pit welder working with the bullgang,,,, "pit mechanics". Interesting the dialects used around the areas

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  33. #25
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    Re: Some stuff in our shop... round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by MISSING LINK View Post
    Catskinner is what we call the tracked bulldozer operator. Unless you opperate a rubber tire bulldozer, then you are a rubber bull. I was a pit welder working with the bullgang,,,, "pit mechanics". Interesting the dialects used around the areas
    Now that somethin new to me, never heard of that one. Each trade seem to have their own language as well.

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