Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: Home A/C TIG

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Oak forest , Illinois
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Home A/C TIG

    Good evening, question to ask anyone who is interested in responding. Iím currently looking at purchasing a Dedicated tig machine for home. Iím a stick welder by trade and profession...Lincoln fan through school, and personal machine and old company...and Miller fan with new company and friends and family.. letís see where this takes me...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SoCal-LA
    Posts
    9,840
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by Cmoravec View Post
    Good evening, question to ask anyone who is interested in responding. I’m currently looking at purchasing a Dedicated tig machine for home. I’m a stick welder by trade and profession...Lincoln fan through school, and personal machine and old company...and Miller fan with new company and friends and family.. let’s see where this takes me...
    Miller Dynasty all the way. If you can swing it, put in 3 phase power into your shop. That will reduce the inrush of current that pops breakers. I run a Dynasty 700 off a 100 amp circuit without issue. The plugs(no hard wire or disconnect, just plugs and breakers) are 60 amps. I imagine when I upgrade to the Dynasty800 I will still be using the same circuit.

    If you can't swing the "Assembled in USA from foreign and domestic parts" you could consider the HTP/Usa line of Euro welders. I consider them to be superior to the Italian/European builds Lincoln sells.

    Going back to Miller Dynastys, there is a wealth of information on them available to you. I have programs for every type of AC tig welding I come across. One for heavy alum, one for lite alum, one for soda can alum, one for alum tacking, one for Zank's Krazee alum program, ect. Same goes for the DC programs. Tacking programs for lite gauge, heavy gauge, pulsed DC, ect.

    Obviously I am a Miller Dynasty fan. Why? Because of my ROI. I make far more money than I spend on them. Now with the Covid economy I have more Dynastys than I can use. They just keep going. If one dies and Miller can't fix it I will make a beer fridge out of it.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Oak forest , Illinois
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Thatís what I was wondering about...the HTP Iím in Chicago so Iím local to them...the machines gonna be for home use so I wonít have access to 3phase....Millerís are defiantly costly...but you pay for what you bet...I was looking on eBay and found the Lincoln v205-T but said it was untested but powered on...new board on it 2-3g...couldnít justify a could be $700 paper weight...so I opted to skip the auction...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Under a Rock
    Posts
    6,122
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    HTP221

    You will be hard-pressed to find anybody that has a bad word to say about them.

    I love mine

    And Iím just a guy in the garage with tools.
    Miller 211
    Hypertherm PM 45
    1961 Lincoln Idealarc 250
    HTP 221


    True Wisdom only comes from Pain.

  5. Likes BluCllrPlt liked this post
  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Oak forest , Illinois
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Ever tried esab? Iíve heard good things about them as well...

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    5,665
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by Cmoravec View Post
    That’s what I was wondering about...the HTP I’m in Chicago so I’m local to them...the machines gonna be for home use so I won’t have access to 3phase
    3 words. Rotary Phase Converter. Home use here as well










    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!

    HTP Invertig 400
    HTP Invertig 221
    HTP ProPulse 300
    HTP ProPulse 200 x2
    HTP ProPulse 220MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200TLP
    HTP Microcut 875SC

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Oak forest , Illinois
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    🤣thatís a monster I love it...400amps at home...

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    410
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Yes phase converters are possible. However, they add yet more inefficiency to the set up. You need a beefy circuit to run the phase converter on - significantly more than what the welder will draw because you don't get something for nothing with the conversion. For commercial applications where you are welding every day and need 3 phase all the time that would add up pretty quick. For infrequent use it might work.

    However, a lot of places that do not have 3 phase power available will run 3 phase generators instead. It can be hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more, to get 3 phase in a place where it is not - because you are needing to upgrade the utility infrastructure (wiring, transformers, the whole 9 yards) to make the run from where 3 phase power is to where you need it to be. The power company isn't going to make that kind of upgrade unless there is a need and the funding to do it. Commercial areas likely already have that infrastructure there from the get-go. In residential areas I don't know that you could even get 3 phase even if you wanted to. Out in the country - probably if you could afford it. That is why you'll find a lot of sawmills out West that run big generators - thats the only way to power their 3 phase mill motors, whether they are on grid power (single phase) or not. You're not going to run a 10-20hp electric motor off a phase converter on singe phase. The infrastructure won't support it even if you could get a big enough breaker and big enough phase converter.

    I did a project at a farm back 10+ years ago (not a fab project, something else) and they had a whole fleet of phase converters on foundations. Their grain handling facility had 3 phase motors but they couldn't get 3 phase power to the farm. So the elevator and fan motors all ran off the converters. It was an interesting place. Of course, you have to manage the power consumption as what is available is limited.
    Last edited by FlyFishn; 04-10-2021 at 01:54 PM.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    5,665
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    Yes phase converters are possible. However, they add yet more inefficiency to the set up
    Very true, but it's a non-issue in a game where you have to pay to play. Luckily WeldingWeb has this crazy hobbyist that does all the things other hobbyists can't do.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!

    HTP Invertig 400
    HTP Invertig 221
    HTP ProPulse 300
    HTP ProPulse 200 x2
    HTP ProPulse 220MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200TLP
    HTP Microcut 875SC

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    410
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Very true, but it's a non-issue in a game where you have to pay to play.
    Just out of curiosity - what are your current specs? For the welder on the top end - what does it pull on 3 phase? And what are you pulling on single phase at that current from the phase converter supplying the power to the welder - again, at the top end?

    What amp service are you running from the power company (supply from the meter)? 200 amps? Or something else?

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    5,665
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    Just out of curiosity - what are your current specs? For the welder on the top end - what does it pull on 3 phase? And what are you pulling on single phase at that current from the phase converter supplying the power to the welder - again, at the top end?

    What amp service are you running from the power company (supply from the meter)? 200 amps? Or something else?
    The machine is rated at 36A when running on 3-Φ 230V. I haven't measured it, but I am very confident that is accurate. These are upper-echelon machines who's specs can be relied upon. Might even be less because where I live the lowest input voltage I've seen coming in is 243V, average 245-247, and have seen as high as 249V. I will eventually have answers to those questions, but right now I don't. Interestingly the panel on my house was installed on a late-Friday afternoon back in the mid-90's (), and long story short, it should be about 125-150A electrical service, maybe, at most. I doubt it is 200A because they used 1/0 aluminum wire coming in from the transformer, which is in a neighbor's backyard a few houses down.
    Last edited by Oscar; 04-10-2021 at 03:53 PM.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!

    HTP Invertig 400
    HTP Invertig 221
    HTP ProPulse 300
    HTP ProPulse 200 x2
    HTP ProPulse 220MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200TLP
    HTP Microcut 875SC

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    410
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    The machine is rated at 36A when running on 3-Φ 230V. I haven't measured it, but I am very confident that is accurate. These are upper-echelon machines who's specs can be relied upon. Might even be less because where I live the lowest input voltage I've seen coming in is 243V, average 245-247, and have seen as high as 249V. I will eventually have answers to those questions, but right now I don't. Interestingly the panel on my house was installed on a late-Friday afternoon back in the mid-90's (), and long story short, it should be about 125-150A electrical service, maybe, at most. I doubt it is 200A because they used 1/0 aluminum wire coming in from the transformer, which is in a neighbor's backyard a few houses down.
    Fair enough.

    Using some logic from the thread in the link below:
    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...er-use-101014/

    The load current conversion (single phase) is about 1.73x the load (3 phase). Idle current (single phase input, no load) for a 10hp RPC is about 3.5a, on the high end. So doing the math:
    36a (3ph) x 1.73 = 62.28
    + 3.5a (1ph) idle
    = 65.78 amps draw on your single phase.

    That isn't nearly as bad as I would have guessed, but still just a wild guess based on some quick "internet research" (may not be very accurate, but sounds like logical math anyway).

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    5,665
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    Fair enough.

    Using some logic from the thread in the link below:
    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...er-use-101014/

    The load current conversion (single phase) is about 1.73x the load (3 phase). Idle current (single phase input, no load) for a 10hp RPC is about 3.5a, on the high end. So doing the math:
    36a (3ph) x 1.73 = 62.28
    + 3.5a (1ph) idle
    = 65.78 amps draw on your single phase.

    That isn't nearly as bad as I would have guessed, but still just a wild guess based on some quick "internet research" (may not be very accurate, but sounds like logical math anyway).
    Yup, right around there. This 30HP RPC uses 13A just spinning idling, but I do not believe it is lost current under actual operation. No factual evidence for that statement, just a hunch. In any event it is rated for FLA of ~72A @ 230V input, with a 1.15 service factor. So for now, it is fine for my purposes. I'm quite happy.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!

    HTP Invertig 400
    HTP Invertig 221
    HTP ProPulse 300
    HTP ProPulse 200 x2
    HTP ProPulse 220MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200TLP
    HTP Microcut 875SC

  15. Likes FlyFishn liked this post
  16. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    central Wis.
    Posts
    5,591
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Yup, right around there. This 30HP RPC uses 13A just spinning idling, but I do not believe it is lost current under actual operation. No factual evidence for that statement, just a hunch. In any event it is rated for FLA of ~72A @ 230V input, with a 1.15 service factor. So for now, it is fine for my purposes. I'm quite happy.
    The power isn't completely lost as that's what is making your third leg. Either way, not a very efficient way to run a welder. Kind of like running an air compressor off of a generator to run air tools.

  17. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    5,665
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    The power isn't completely lost as that's what is making your third leg. Either way, not a very efficient way to run a welder. Kind of like running an air compressor off of a generator to run air tools.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Very true, but it's a non-issue in a game where you have to pay to play. Luckily WeldingWeb has this crazy hobbyist that does all the things other hobbyists can't do.
    ...
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!

    HTP Invertig 400
    HTP Invertig 221
    HTP ProPulse 300
    HTP ProPulse 200 x2
    HTP ProPulse 220MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200TLP
    HTP Microcut 875SC

  18. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    410
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    The power isn't completely lost as that's what is making your third leg. Either way, not a very efficient way to run a welder. Kind of like running an air compressor off of a generator to run air tools.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Very true, but it's a non-issue in a game where you have to pay to play. Luckily WeldingWeb has this crazy hobbyist that does all the things other hobbyists can't do.
    ...
    What I'd like to know is what a hobbyist legitimately welds on with a machine running 400 amps, or in other words - beyond the mid-200 amp range that even a commercial shop type range machine would run. If you don't need the amps, but need a higher duty cycle at lower amps - same question. What do you weld that legitimately needs that machine? Running a bead on a 2" thick bar at 400 amps just to do it? Or are you sticking parts together where the welds need that much juice?

  19. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    5,665
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    What I'd like to know is what a hobbyist legitimately welds on with a machine running 400 amps, or in other words - beyond the mid-200 amp range that even a commercial shop type range machine would run. If you don't need the amps, but need a higher duty cycle at lower amps - same question. What do you weld that legitimately needs that machine? Running a bead on a 2" thick bar at 400 amps just to do it? Or are you sticking parts together where the welds need that much juice?
    Absolutely nothing, for now. These are toys for me, for now. I know the idea is unfathomable to most here, because they see them as only tools that must be used to make money, a primary income. That is just not how I see them.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!

    HTP Invertig 400
    HTP Invertig 221
    HTP ProPulse 300
    HTP ProPulse 200 x2
    HTP ProPulse 220MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200TLP
    HTP Microcut 875SC

  20. Likes Munkul liked this post
  21. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    B.C. Canada
    Posts
    4,370
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    What I'd like to know is what a hobbyist legitimately welds on with a machine running 400 amps, or in other words - beyond the mid-200 amp range that even a commercial shop type range machine would run. If you don't need the amps, but need a higher duty cycle at lower amps - same question. What do you weld that legitimately needs that machine? Running a bead on a 2" thick bar at 400 amps just to do it? Or are you sticking parts together where the welds need that much juice?
    I fail to see why Oscar or any other hobbyist here need to justify or explain their choice of machines. The same concept would apply to guns, car, boats, trucks and booze.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    :

  22. #19
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Wa. state
    Posts
    4,659
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by Lis2323 View Post
    I fail to see why Oscar or any other hobbyist here need to justify or explain their choice of machines. The same concept would apply to guns, car, boats, trucks and booze.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Hey... I resemble that remark!

  23. Likes Lis2323, psacustomcreations liked this post
  24. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    121
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    You're not going to run a 10-20hp electric motor off a phase converter on singe phase. The infrastructure won't support it even if you could get a big enough breaker and big enough phase converter.
    I do exactly this. I have a 15HP lathe running off an RPC with no issues. My experience is a 20HP load is about the max a guy can reliably run on a typical 200a single phase service.
    Miller Syncrowave 180SD

  25. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    5,665
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by slodat View Post
    I do exactly this. I have a 15HP lathe running off an RPC with no issues. My experience is a 20HP load is about the max a guy can reliably run on a typical 200a single phase service.
    20HP isn't all that much electrical load on it's own though. That's only ~14kW. 100A service can support 24kW. 200A service can support 48 kW. Unless perhaps it's a hard-starting motor, or you are referring to some thing else?
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!

    HTP Invertig 400
    HTP Invertig 221
    HTP ProPulse 300
    HTP ProPulse 200 x2
    HTP ProPulse 220MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200TLP
    HTP Microcut 875SC

  26. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Posts
    2,753
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by Lis2323 View Post
    I fail to see why Oscar or any other hobbyist here need to justify or explain their choice of machines. The same concept would apply to guns, car, boats, trucks and booze.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Here you go Terry, Oscar and of course CEP. This just popped up in my Facebook feed.

    Name:  hobby welder.jpg
Views: 197
Size:  159.9 KB
    Millermatic 252 MIG
    Miller Dynasty 200DX TIG
    Miller Spectrum 625 Plasma
    Altas 12x36 Metal Lathe
    Bridgeport Milling Machine
    www.psacustomcreations.com

  27. Likes whtbaron, Lis2323, shovelon liked this post
  28. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    5,665
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by psacustomcreations View Post
    Here you go Terry, Oscar and of course CEP. This just popped up in my Facebook feed.
    Well hobbyist welders are real welders too. They just don't have to rely on it for their primary income.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!

    HTP Invertig 400
    HTP Invertig 221
    HTP ProPulse 300
    HTP ProPulse 200 x2
    HTP ProPulse 220MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200TLP
    HTP Microcut 875SC

  29. Likes And256, Tillerdemon liked this post
  30. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Cumbria, UK
    Posts
    1,343
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    I've ALWAYS managed to make 200 amps AC TIG work for my (profit making) part time work... the odd time it's been a big job, I use the 400 amp MIG instead.

    I'd reccomend a quality single phase 200-230 amp machine, from Lincoln, Miller, HTP, any of the bigger names... Dynasty 210 or Lorch/Tweco Arcmaster 220 would be my personal choice, but they're all good. As long as they're either European or American built.

    200 amps will see you through on up to 1/4" alloy, you will be at its limit there and will need pre-heat on big sections, but a quality machine can do it just fine. Be realistic about what you'll use it for. I always want the biggest and best, but I have other things to buy to grow my shop first... machine tools, bigger plasma, sheet metal machines, etc.

    At some point I'll buy a 250-300 amp 3 phase TIG set again, I've had a couple of them through my shop but didn't see the need to hang onto them. Again, I'm just being realistic about what I use my TIG set for.

    A rotary phase converter makes a lot of sense for running 3 phase motors on lathes, mills etc, but makes less sense for running welders... IMO makes no sense at all for a home shop unless you want to run big lathes etc too. Just be realistic about what you need, vs what you want*.

    *unless you're Oscar, he's a special case
    Last edited by Munkul; 04-12-2021 at 02:49 AM.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  31. Likes FlyFishn liked this post
  32. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,917
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Home A/C TIG

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    What I'd like to know is what a hobbyist legitimately welds on with a machine running 400 amps
    3/8" aluminum ... or 1/4" if you're in a hurry.

    Aluminum castings.

    What qualifies as "legitimate" in FlyFishWorld? I want to make sure I'm "in compliance" with my (gasp) 465A welder.
    Last edited by Kelvin; 04-12-2021 at 07:14 AM.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Page generated in 1,624,552,152.76915 seconds with 14 queries