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Thread: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

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    Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    It seems like the Millermatic 255 has been re-packaged to handle all OEM autobody repairs, including aluminum without a spool gun or push/pull gun. It looks like the now offer a 12 foot Bernard BTB gun that will handle 047 5xxx series aluminum wire. Very interesting development! https://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.c...08-240v-951821

    I hadn't seen this before, I wonder how it works? The HTP Pro-Pulse 300 uses a 10 feet long gun fro running aluminum. Not that the extra 2 feet is such an added bonus, but I wonder how well it runs aluminum wire, or if the extra 2 feet causes it to stumble in comparison?

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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    I've been running .035 5356 lincoln super glaze in 10ft guns and teflon liners, and I prefer it to a spoolgun. 4043 doesn't work as well in a mig gun, it needs an almost straight gun, and a new tip.

    Snap-On has been touting aluminum auto repairs for years with just the mig gun(on their website).

    Bernard makes some nice guns, so maybe they have a really good liner, that works with the extra length. Does the new Millermatic 255 have a 2 or 4 wheel drive system?

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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    2 wheel

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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    That's not too bad. I can run 5000-series 047 aluminum wire down my 20ft MIG guns w/ carbon graphite liners if I want to. 12ft easily doable with 5000 series. Other softer alloys and more than 10-12 ft and you're asking for trouble.
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    That's not too bad. I can run 5000-series 047 aluminum wire down my 20ft MIG guns w/ carbon graphite liners if I want to. 12ft easily doable with 5000 series. Other softer alloys and more than 10-12 ft and you're asking for trouble.
    If you would be so kind, please show some pics of welds using 5353 on AL using push. I've never seen anything that meets my requirements for boat building. Not in any way being snippy here, I just want to see. Things progress and I'm not always on top of that. Particularly an outside corner, say on 3/16", would be ducks. Hell, anything would be good!

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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Yofish View Post
    If you would be so kind, please show some pics of welds using 5353 on AL using push. I've never seen anything that meets my requirements for boat building. Not in any way being snippy here, I just want to see. Things progress and I'm not always on top of that. Particularly an outside corner, say on 3/16", would be ducks. Hell, anything would be good!
    I should have some scrap aluminum, but I don't have 5353 wire. Can you send me a 8" spool of it? I only have 4043 and 5356.
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    I think he made a typo and meant 5356.
    Ernie F.

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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    It seems like the Millermatic 255 has been re-packaged to handle all OEM autobody repairs, including aluminum without a spool gun or push/pull gun. It looks like the now offer a 12 foot Bernard BTB gun that will handle 047 5xxx series aluminum wire. Very interesting development! https://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.c...08-240v-951821

    I hadn't seen this before, I wonder how it works? The HTP Pro-Pulse 300 uses a 10 feet long gun fro running aluminum. Not that the extra 2 feet is such an added bonus, but I wonder how well it runs aluminum wire, or if the extra 2 feet causes it to stumble in comparison?
    I don't know Louie, seems like a lot of extra money for 2 extra MIG guns, the 2 cylinder cart, the spools of wire and a 2nd flow gage.
    I didn't add them all up, maybe I'm missing something?
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by metalman21 View Post
    I think he made a typo and meant 5356.
    I thought so too, but I also thought maybe it's some obscure alloy that he was working with, seeing as there are a lot of aluminum alloys that I may not be familiar with.
    Last edited by Oscar; 04-06-2021 at 09:06 PM.
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    I don't know Louie, seems like a lot of extra money for 2 extra MIG guns, the 2 cylinder cart, the spools of wire and a 2nd flow gauge.
    I didn't add them all up, maybe I'm missing something?
    I agree Ernie, but I was psyched up because you can buy just the Bernard BTB gun for aluminum for around $300 and just add it to the millermatic 255 or multimatic 255. Just for giggles though I went to HTP and priced out all the same components with a Propulse 300 and the HTP package was within $100 or so of the Miller package. It makes me wonder if Miller is trying to compete with HTP...not sure.

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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    I thought so too, but I also thought maybe it's some obscure alloy that he was working with, seeing as there are a lot of aluminum alloys that I may not be familiar with.
    The package comes with a ten pound spool of .047" 5554 aluminum, which is apparently what Ford uses to weld the F 150

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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    I thought so too, but I also thought maybe it's some obscure alloy that he was working with, seeing as there are a lot of aluminum alloys that I may not be familiar with.
    Definitely some other alloys out there. In 36 years of welding aluminum 4043 and 5356 was all I ever used. Last couple of years 4943 was a nice addition.
    Quick search for a selection chart: Alloy Selection Section (alcotec.com) Notice 4943 not to be found, probably an older chart.
    Ernie F.

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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    The package comes with a ten pound spool of .047" 5554 aluminum, which is apparently what Ford uses to weld the F 150
    .047 seems like such a large wire for thin aluminum. Is this what everybody uses for autobody repair?
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    This video may answer your question. Its seems like maybe i-car and Ford are specifying this size wire to be certified to repair Ford vehicles.


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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    This video may answer your question. Its seems like maybe i-car and Ford are specifying this size wire to be certified to repair Ford vehicles.
    Answers my question quite well. Thanks. I need to learn more about pulse.
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    This video may answer your question. Its seems like maybe i-car and Ford are specifying this size wire to be certified to repair Ford vehicles.

    What's with that creepy voice edit at 3:02-3:04 ??? https://www.weldingweb.com/images/smilies/laughing.gif
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by T Red View Post
    .047 seems like such a large wire for thin aluminum. Is this what everybody uses for autobody repair?
    Pulsed-Spray arc increases the range of material thickness for a given wire diameter. Unlike conventional short-circuit MIG, during pulsed-spray the filler metal deposition is no longer directly "tied" to the WFS the way it is in short-circuit MIG, or even pure axial spray transfer. The machine's processor can quite literally deliver amperage independently of the filler metal deposition, and vice-versa, which is what increases it's usable range for welding thin and thick.

    Depending on how truly in-depth you want to learn about pulse, I have some scientific "white-paper" publications, but they are thoroughly heavy in numbers, equations, graphs, etc. They are not really "in laymans terms of the final outcome and the pro's and con's" type of stuff.
    Last edited by Oscar; 04-07-2021 at 03:23 PM.
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Pulsed-Spray arc increases the range of material thickness for a given wire diameter. Unlike conventional short-circuit MIG, during pulsed-spray the filler metal deposition is no longer directly "tied" to the WFS the way it is in short-circuit MIG, or even pure axial spray transfer. The machine's processor can quite literally deliver amperage independently of the filler metal deposition, and vice-versa, which is what increases it's usable range for welding thin and thick.

    Depending on how truly in-depth you want to learn about pulse, I have some scientific "white-paper" publications, but they are thoroughly heavy in numbers, equations, graphs, etc. They are not really "in laymans terms of the final outcome and the pro's and con's" type of stuff.
    Thanks Oscar, not looking to go that in-depth. Really referring to practical use. Specifically with MM255 and 350P Al. We have not taken the time to learn proper set up of the 350P in pulse.
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by T Red View Post
    Thanks Oscar, not looking to go that in-depth. Really referring to practical use. Specifically with MM255 and 350P Al. We have not taken the time to learn proper set up of the 350P in pulse.
    To put it simply, on a good machine, you dial the material thickness, and perhaps a few start/stop features if it has them like start speeds, down-slope, pre/post-flow, hot-start, crater fill, and the machine does most of the rest. The only thing left to do is slightly tweak the "material thickness" and voltage offset to account for unavoidable differences in joint geometry ----the same basic rules about adjusting/running out of position in traditional short circuit MIG still apply to pulsed spray. The true in's-and-out's of how the pulse-spray mechanism actually works (which is not at all like TIG pulse) can be left to the science nerds like me
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    I happily ran 5356 in my Miller 64 feeder and a 3m gun (10ft) for some 2.5m seams, the gun got hot but it worked fine. Plastic liner and oversized tip.

    I've also ran pure 1080 (extremely soft) in a Lorch S3 with a 4m (13ft) watercooled gun, worked really well.
    The dealer actually took a video of it running smoothly even with a loose knot tied in the whip. Previously to this, we had NO joy with pushing the 1080, it's so incredibly soft that any sort of problem or gap means it birdsnests. The Lincoln machine that worked fine with 4043 wouldn't even run for 1" before birdsnesting.
    The lorch 4 roll feeder had the smoothest feed and liner setup of any machine I've seen, straight from the feed rollers to a bronze guide and straight into the liner, very tight clearance.

    I have an alloy platform to make next month so maybe get some more pics of my Miller setup then. I wish i could justify buying a Lorch, but not right now.
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    I happily ran 5356 in my Miller 64 feeder and a 3m gun (10ft) for some 2.5m seams, the gun got hot but it worked fine. Plastic liner and oversized tip.

    I've also ran pure 1080 (extremely soft) in a Lorch S3 with a 4m (13ft) watercooled gun, worked really well.
    The dealer actually took a video of it running smoothly even with a loose knot tied in the whip. Previously to this, we had NO joy with pushing the 1080, it's so incredibly soft that any sort of problem or gap means it birdsnests. The Lincoln machine that worked fine with 4043 wouldn't even run for 1" before birdsnesting.
    The lorch 4 roll feeder had the smoothest feed and liner setup of any machine I've seen, straight from the feed rollers to a bronze guide and straight into the liner, very tight clearance.

    I have an alloy platform to make next month so maybe get some more pics of my Miller setup then. I wish i could justify buying a Lorch, but not right now.
    I did the same in the early 80s using a 10 foot torch with nylon liner on an Airco transformer mig. Drove 4043 wire like a charm. Like an idiot I sold it looking for something better. Never found it until 20 years later I bought a push/pull setup that I still use today. Miss the simplicity of the old nylon liner Airco.
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    I thought so too, but I also thought maybe it's some obscure alloy that he was working with, seeing as there are a lot of aluminum alloys that I may not be familiar with.
    YES, a typo! 5356 it is and I wanna see pics! I have not been able to make push-only meet my standards on AL but I'm all eyeballs and not ears. Saying something is one thing, showing me an example of what is said is proof. I'm in no way arguing here, I just want to see. I have no interest in 4043 or 4943 as they are useless for what I do.

    I can imagine a suspended supply (gravity!)) with a short whip but that would never work for me, so anything otherwise so I'd be interested if things have progressed.

    Sorry for the delay, I'm not 24/7 here.

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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Yofish View Post
    YES, a typo! 5356 it is and I wanna see pics! I have not been able to make push-only meet my standards on AL but I'm all eyeballs and not ears. Saying something is one thing, showing me an example of what is said is proof. I'm in no way arguing here, I just want to see. I have no interest in 4043 or 4943 as they are useless for what I do.

    I can imagine a suspended supply (gravity!)) with a short whip but that would never work for me, so anything otherwise so I'd be interested if things have progressed.

    Sorry for the delay, I'm not 24/7 here.
    No worries, I wouldn't have been able to try anything before the weekend anyways. Much to my surprise, I was able to feed 5356 047 through one of my 20 ft Anaconda's. It wasn't a project/job, just to see if it would even work, and well yea it worked. Am I great at it? Not really. I hardly get any practice, so you do have to be able to take that out of the equation if the welds don't end up looking pretty. Not the machine's fault I'm a hobbyist
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    Yofish, are you running Lincoln? Miller? Something else?
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    Re: Millermatic 255 aluminum without a spool or push/pull gun

    yofish,

    got some scrap and ran 047 diameter 5356 through my 20ft Anaconda. Keep in mind as you look at the pics, while my welds might not meet your standards, that's not to say that the technology/machine are not up to par. In the hands of someone who does aluminum MIG day-in-day-out, they can likely get better results than I. It's a wee bit cold and of course sooty due to the magnesium in 5356, but none the less it works just fine as push-only IMO. I used my ProPulse 300 with the 4-roller geared setup so all 4 rollers are grooved and are driving the wire down my custom MIG gun with a carbon graphite liner.



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