Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

For a consumer that just wants to stick metal together once and a while, a wire feed often can be easier to learn "good nuff" for the task at hand.

If you want to weld seriously, a stick welder is a great way to start - some would even say the best way.
6013 (or 7014) and 6011 are forgiving rods to burn.

It all really depends if you want to practice and get good, or just stick stuff together on occasion.

Keep in mind, equally terrible welds can be made with either process

 

Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

Thank you everyone for your responses!! I have been wanting to buy a welder for many years and at different times have needed one. Rather then buy one I would go to a muffler shop with whatever is broken and they would weld it for me. I live on 5 acres, have a tractor, cut and split my own wood, work on all my vehicles... and things break sometimes. And of course its never my fault

The current known projects are the gate and a used trailer I recently bought that needs a little tlc.

For a consumer that just wants to stick metal together once and a while, a wire feed often can be easier to learn "good nuff" for the task at hand.

If you want to weld seriously, a stick welder is a great way to start - some would even say the best way.
6013 (or 7014) and 6011 are forgiving rods to burn.

It all really depends if you want to practice and get good, or just stick stuff together on occasion.

Keep in mind, equally terrible welds can be made with either process

I dont mind practicing but have many other things to do so this is not a career. But would like to learn to make decent, acceptable, welds that will hold.

The hinges you want are shaped like a large "J" on its side. The longer end goes thru your 4 x 4 tube and is threaded. This allows you to adjust the gate up and down. The Gate side has a type of receiver hook that would require welding. However I am not sure, there might be bolt on ones avail as well. Check out some of the popular gate supplier sites.

Yes, familiar with the various gate hinges. I want to make "Uphill Hinge"s which does complicate things a bit. The driveway is sloped which requires an Uphill Hinge to compensate or install the gate 12" off the ground. The post side of the hinge will be welded. The gate side of the hinge, J bolt, will be bolted through the gate frame. With a welder, making the uphill hinge is not too complicated. If, the welder has some skills

JJN - please give complete details on your gate project. Your welder requirements may be widely different depending on what you are trying to do. A single gate or two gates, the total driveway width, gate material and design, etc. would be minimum info. Gate posts may need to be much longer and thicker gauge if you are swinging a heavy gate.

In any case, I strongly suggest you buy some scrap material and spend substantial hood time before starting on your gate. It is so easy to burn through 11 gauge or to lack sufficient penetration. Only practice and examination allows you to know the difference.

There is a lot of information and guys here to help you get started but trying to go cheap may be more costly in the long run.

The gate is actually the good news. It is a single 12 ft long gate made of aluminum and weighs ~110 lbs. The hinges do require structural integrity to the gate post but they will not be supporting a 500+lb 16 ft long steel gate. The hinges are made for that though. Hence, 3/8" hinge plates welded to the hinge.

1/8" 6011 runs good at 85 to 95 amps. 1/8" 7018 runs good at 110 to 130 amps. Those ranges will get me by on 90% of the metal thicknesses I work with. A 150A welder should work, but consider the duty cycle - 30% duty cycle @ 125A means 3 minutes of welding & 7 minutes of standby.

MIG welding would work also, but laying in a weld with proper penetration will be the trick.

However - stick or MIG is not a plug & play deal - it will take some practice & learning before you can stick the gate on the post & expect it to hold. Hope your toe isn't under it when it breaks!

A welder from another site said basically what you did. 150A stick welder would work and mentioned similar amp settings. He did not mention wearing steel toed boots though


"You can weld it with 7018 1/6" or 3/32" diameter rod. Set the welder to 60 to 85 amp"




One thing I cant quite understand is the thickness of metal and penetration and how that works with two very different thickness of metal.

In my simple mind it seems the thicker the metal, the more amperage required for good penetration. Part of this confusion comes from specs stated with welders. For instance, a 140 amp wire feed sates it can weld up to 1/4". Yet, the amp settings that have been mentioned to weld the 11 gauge to 3/8" hinge plates is far less then that. And, the minimum size welder required seems to be ~150 amps. Far less then the 60-90 amps mentioned. Maybe some "overhead" current availability is required for the welder to perform.

Also, it seems that stick welders with Arc Force, Dig and/or Hit Start is the way to go?

 

Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

The hinges you want are shaped like a large "J" on its side. The longer end goes thru your 4 x 4 tube and is threaded. This allows you to adjust the gate up and down. The Gate side has a type of receiver hook that would require welding. However I am not sure, there might be bolt on ones avail as well. Check out some of the popular gate supplier sites.

 

Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

Well yer caught in a predicament since your thinner material projects will really require a Mig welder-

You could PU up a small 120v Inverter stick machine and practice like crazy before attempting the Driveway Gate hinges.

No easy answer or cheap solution that covers all yer needs.

 

Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

JJN - please give complete details on your gate project. Your welder requirements may be widely different depending on what you are trying to do. A single gate or two gates, the total driveway width, gate material and design, etc. would be minimum info. Gate posts may need to be much longer and thicker gauge if you are swinging a heavy gate.

In any case, I strongly suggest you buy some scrap material and spend substantial hood time before starting on your gate. It is so easy to burn through 11 gauge or to lack sufficient penetration. Only practice and examination allows you to know the difference.

There is a lot of information and guys here to help you get started but trying to go cheap may be more costly in the long run.

 

Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

1/8" 6011 runs good at 85 to 95 amps. 1/8" 7018 runs good at 110 to 130 amps. Those ranges will get me by on 90% of the metal thicknesses I work with. A 150A welder should work, but consider the duty cycle - 30% duty cycle @ 125A means 3 minutes of welding & 7 minutes of standby.

MIG welding would work also, but laying in a weld with proper penetration will be the trick.

However - stick or MIG is not a plug & play deal - it will take some practice & learning before you can stick the gate on the post & expect it to hold. Hope your toe isn't under it when it breaks!

 

Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

If you're patient and willing to put in some time learning, I would recommend a cheap used stick welder from CL or wherever. It sounds like you could use it, what with your other stuff going on around the homestead.

The trick to welding thick metal to thin metal is to melt the thick metal first, right at the edge where they lap or touch, then "wash" the molten puddle over to melt into the thinner stuff. (Normally in a lap joint with equal thickness material on both pieces, you would melt the bottom piece, then wash it over to the top piece but with different thicknesses, it's different.)

If you burn through the gate post, you can fill the hole with 6010 or 6011 ... might as well learn now, because it's a skill you're going to need! Also using an angle grinder...you'll need that skill, too! :laugh:

I can do 1/8" steel with 1/8" 6010 but a beginner might not be able to. In a pinch, you can get specialty 1/16" diameter electrodes, which you should be able to handle without too much practice.

Good luck, welcome to the forum and let us know how you make out.

 

Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

1/8" is thin metal? That's news to me. Just concentrate on the heavier stock. Despite what the critics may say I would run 3/32" 7018 verticle down( assuming it's vertical) for a first pass , then run a second pass uphill. 1/8" 6011 would also be a good choice.

 

Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

1/8" is thin metal? That's news to me. Just concentrate on the heavier stock. Despite what the critics may say I would run 3/32" 7018 verticle down( assuming it's vertical) for a first pass , then run a second pass uphill. 1/8" 6011 would also be a good choice.

You brought up an important point, especially since Im a beginner. I will make and weld the Gate Hinges to the Post in the garage, horizontal with hinges resting on the 4x4, prior to the post being set. The gate location is a couple hundred feet from a power source. Unless, I splice into the 220v well pump thats about 75 ft away from the gate location. Its doable but prefer not to for several reasons.

Regarding your comment about "1/8" is thin metal?". Are you suggesting that no special technique is required. No need to start/favor the weld on the thicker 3/8" material and wash the weld to the thinner 11 gauge. Just weld as if the two materials are the same thickness.

Would the second pass favor the 3/8" side or the 11 gauge. Or on top of first pass. Assuming the first pass should be in the pocket/corner/middle of the two metals.

 

Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

Without seeing the joint config it is hard to advise.

As far as penetration - amp settings help determine how much a given rod will penetrate within its range. Thinner sections will use the low end of the range. Thicker sections will use the higher end of the range. Thick sections welded with say 1/8" 7018 will compensate the penetration range of the rod by beveling, grooving, or other wise configure the joint & using multi-pass welds. A 1/2" base metal, but joint, beveled will take 3-5 passes to complete with 1/8" electrode. Put in a root with a small rod, then fill & cap with a larger rod/higher amps maybe can do it in 3 passes.

You don't really weld 1/4" with this many amps & 1/2" with twice that many amps.

 

Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

Clean the coating off or purchase bare hinges. Other than expense, not sure why the powdercoat weld-on hinges.

 

Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

A Miller Thunderbolt or Lincoln Tombstone AC/DC stick welder are great machines for the money. There are always around Craiglist or Facebook Marketplace by me. Most AC ones average $150 while the AC/DC closer to $300.00. Both are 220 volt .
If your doing repairs on dirty, rusted, weathered metal, stick is definitely better. A stick rod will fit just about anywhere. A mig gun can be challenging at times because of it's size.
Welding thick to thin with stick will take some practice. You watch the puddle and just let the puddle flow into the thin material. The rod is focused on the thicker and the puddle burns into the thin.
Buy a quality machine and it will last a long time. Miller ,Lincoln, and Hobart have been around forever. If you are thinking on imports, Harbor Freight would be my choice. Buy instore and get extended warranty. IF you have issues, just return to store. There are many posts about online shipping returns of defective machines.

 

Re: Welding 1/8" to 1/4" Steel - Driveway Gate Hinges and misc... Beware, OP is a No

Hey JJN - I'm late to the party in the thread here but reread BD1's post ^

A Miller Thunderbolt or Lincoln Tombstone AC/DC stick welder are great machines for the money. There are always around Craiglist or Facebook Marketplace by me. Most AC ones average $150 while the AC/DC closer to $300.00. Both are 220 volt .
If your doing repairs on dirty, rusted, weathered metal, stick is definitely better. A stick rod will fit just about anywhere. A mig gun can be challenging at times because of it's size.
Welding thick to thin with stick will take some practice. You watch the puddle and just let the puddle flow into the thin material. The rod is focused on the thicker and the puddle burns into the thin.
Buy a quality machine and it will last a long time. Miller ,Lincoln, and Hobart have been around forever. If you are thinking on imports, Harbor Freight would be my choice. Buy instore and get extended warranty. IF you have issues, just return to store. There are many posts about online shipping returns of defective machines.

I didn't read through every thread here, but I am a firm believer in a tombstone machine. The reason is they are very robust. If the world blew up the only two things left would be ****roaches and transformer stick welders.

I am not as proficient of a welder as a lot of people on this forum, perhaps by a long shot, but I did learn how to weld from my dad in the mid-90's. We used a small flux core machine (I still have it, burned up on me which is why I went looking at welders in recent years). Dad got the small flux core machine for the same reason you hear about - they are easy to work with and learn on. For the kinds of things we used it for - lawnmower deck repairs mostly, other yard equipment, light repairs, etc - it worked. As I got older and got more in to fabrication I really started making use of the machine - but it being very limited it was hard to size projects to what the machine could do. That isn't the way to work. It should be the opposite. You should have the equipment to handle the projects you intend to weld.

I looked hard at the inverter machines. Yes, you hear a lot of negatives about Everlast but they were on the top of my list because of their features and price point. I personally wouldn't buy a welder from HF, I understand the benefit of having an actual local store to complain to, but there are just some things from HF that I can't bring myself to buy and welders right now are one of those. I took a project over to a friends farm to weld because he has better equipment. We used a Lincoln AC225, older one. I had 3/8" and 1/2" plate I was welding to 1/4" wall square tube. We had more than enough weld power on the tombstone. That made an impression on me.

What also made an impression on me is, once I started researching the machines, the quality of the real old stuff came through. If you look at the weight of a Round Top (Lincoln Idealarc 250, from about the early 80s and earlier back to the 50's or 60's) vs a modern AC 225 the Round Top is around 350-400lbs and an AC 225 is around 100lbs. BIG difference. Where is the weight? In the Idealarc it is in the transformer, reactor, and choke - all solid copper-wound. Welders aren't built like that these days. Well, if you want to buy a brand new shiny Idealarc 250 (and yes they are still made today - square bodies, round tops stopped in the 80's I think) you can - for about $4-5,000. If you look at the AC 225's of today and compare them to the old round tops, for example - they don't hold a candle to the old stuff. They just aren't robust. Not only that but you loose the infinitely adjustable current on the AC 225 - it has set positions/amperages. This makes it impossible to dial in precise amperage. On smaller stuff I find this important. I like running small (5/64") 7014 rod and when you get down there small adjustments in current make a big difference. That means the difference between not wetting in to the metal with too light of amperage and blowing through it with too much current - it is a fine balance. If all you are welding is thicker stuff the difference might not be as noticeable.

So my humble opinion is right on the same track as BD1 - find you an old tombstone. Get one that does both AC and DC, not just AC, and has infinitely adjustable current, not a selector switch. They can be found surprisingly cheap. I think I paid about $150 for mine - round top with wheel cart and all leads including the power cord. The fan didn't work, but taking it apart I was able to free the bearings with some fluid film (lube dried up in the bearings was all - fluid film penetrated in and freed them right up). If I didn't care about the way it looked and just wanted it to weld I could have stopped there but I decided to fully restore it. Now it looks as good as it works.
https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/708543-1966-Round-Top-Idealarc-250?p=8764387#post8764387

If you get a tombstone that is reliable, even if you think it is a pain in the rear end to move it around, keep in mind you will always have something to weld with. If you go with an inverter down the road so you can move it around easier and it kicks the bucket you can fall back on the tombstone and keep going. If you only get an inverter machine and it goes down with no back up you're SOL. What does that down time mean? In a bit of an extreme example - if you are a farmer and have a narrow planting window with storms in the forecast that has a planter that breaks with 150 acres left you better have a way to get the planter back in the field. Without a replacement part right there to put on you have to repair it, bandaid repair if nothing else, so that planter can go - now. If your one and only welder is fried what do you do? I would rather be in a scenario where I have a fall-back position at the ready myself. Even if it means some heavy moving that is still able to be done, and much faster, than waiting for replacement parts for a welder or having a welder off somewhere for repair. What ever the example - broken boat trailer, loader frame on your tractor, home made wind turbine or tower, driveway gate, what ever.

If you can set the welder up in a garage and weld in there, without needing to take the welder out in the field, I say start with a tombstone and learn on that then upgrade to an inverter later.