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Thread: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

  1. #1
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    Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Just a little one for this job, I've started on a job installing a heating/cooling system for a Tomato growing greenhouse.

    The building itself is 650x820 feet, along the 650 foot wall of the building there are 6 pipes running the entire length, 4 feed lines and 2 return to the water heater.



    The building is split up into 40 bays, each bay will have a hydroponic bed for growing tomato's, as well as pipe with temperature controlled water flowing through them to keep the greenhouse at 18 degree's C, each by will have 6 pipes running along it's length to move warm water around which is where I'm getting to my point.

    There are in total 38 miles of water pipe to install, as well at 4 miles of underground feed water pipe.



    A dutch company designs the greenhouses and specs the WPS, and apparently using 6013 for applications like this with low pressure water pipe is very common in Europe, so WPS is for E6013 downhill, Weld's are not tested and full pen isn't required (except for the underground runs)







    Honestly this isn't usually the sort of thread I'd post, but someone said in one of my last thread that running 6013 downhill seems insane, and I kind of wanted to show that it actually works quite well, es[ecially on thin material.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Don't the Brits use 6013 downhill routinely for pipe? Seems like I heard that here from somebody...maybe Munkul?

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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    I want the job fixing all the leaks,, with the requirement that I stay on the job as long as there are leaks,
    or for the 75 year life of the greenhouse,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    That requirement would mean that I would have to live until age 145,,, WOOT!!







    Why weld,,? in this day and age,,, someone must offer a "sharkbite type connector" for this by now,,,

    OR, someone needs to invent one,,

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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetMK View Post
    I want the job fixing all the leaks,, with the requirement that I stay on the job as long as there are leaks,
    or for the 75 year life of the greenhouse,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    That requirement would mean that I would have to live until age 145,,, WOOT!!







    Why weld,,? in this day and age,,, someone must offer a "sharkbite type connector" for this by now,,,

    OR, someone needs to invent one,,
    I can't see I can imagine why there be any more leaks with 6013 vs 7018. It all comes down to the guy behind the stinger. If he chooses to be lazy and not grind your starts and stops every single one of those starts and stops with 7018 could leak. I have fixed a lot of items where I work that continually break with 7018. Do a good job with prep and procedure and welding with 6013 and they never failed again. One of them was the back structure of a Cat 6040 bucket for a hydraulic shovel. It was repaired with esab 7100 Ultra, then again with 7018. They both broke right away. I gouged it out and just for kicks and giggles welded it with 6013 as a joke and it worked. Just my two peso's.

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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by MISSING LINK View Post
    I can't see I can imagine why there be any more leaks with 6013 vs 7018.
    I am not saying 6013 is the problem,,
    I am saying two things (In My Humble Opinion) are the problem,,

    1) only single pass welding - virtually every weld will eventually leak due to defective starts/stops,, mainly due to corrosion
    (Again,, that is my opinion,, after studying corrosion for WAY too many years)

    2) down hill welding versus up welding,,
    (Personally, I find my worst welds are vertical down,, PLEASE,, let me weld up!!)

    When I was in my 20's, and could see very good,, the flux could run ahead of a down weld, and look just like fused steel,,
    I was amazed at that,,
    Even now,, on occasion I will weld downhill,, sometimes it works,, sometimes,,, it does not work.

    Virtually all the time vertical up is a perfect weld,, again, this is for me welding,,

  8. #6
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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    You da' man! 6013 is quite runny for me, so I definitely can't do what you do.
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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Looking good

    I don't mind 6013 at all. Turned up hot it runs vertical down quite nicely.
    I used it a bunch (in my beginning days) and found it to be fine for what I did.

    I've also used it for filling big, deep holes to be re-drilled. It drills and grinds a little easier than 7018 in my opinion - could be my imagination.

    I don't really buy it anymore, but I get it given to me sometimes for students. They really like learning with it since it starts so easy.

    I think the only ones I have left are 3/16" or 7/32" diameter.
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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetMK View Post
    I am not saying 6013 is the problem,,
    I am saying two things (In My Humble Opinion) are the problem,,

    1) only single pass welding - virtually every weld will eventually leak due to defective starts/stops,, mainly due to corrosion
    (Again,, that is my opinion,, after studying corrosion for WAY too many years)

    2) down hill welding versus up welding,,
    (Personally, I find my worst welds are vertical down,, PLEASE,, let me weld up!!)

    When I was in my 20's, and could see very good,, the flux could run ahead of a down weld, and look just like fused steel,,
    I was amazed at that,,
    Even now,, on occasion I will weld downhill,, sometimes it works,, sometimes,,, it does not work.

    Virtually all the time vertical up is a perfect weld,, again, this is for me welding,,
    All of these pipe are schd 5, so the wall thickness at the high end is about 3/32, down to about .065, I tried going uphill and it's alot easier to get slag inclusions, blow holes or miss an edge than running it downhill, the company building the greenhouse has been doing it for 30 year's, they do it this way for a reason.

    The whole point of this post is that the accepted norm is not the only way to do things and there are situations where the accepted norm isn't the best, with some practice there are many ways to skin the cat.

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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttoks View Post
    All of these pipe are schd 5, so the wall thickness at the high end is about 3/32, down to about .065, I tried going uphill and it's alot easier to get slag inclusions, blow holes or miss an edge than running it downhill, the company building the greenhouse has been doing it for 30 year's, they do it this way for a reason.

    The whole point of this post is that the accepted norm is not the only way to do things and there are situations where the accepted norm isn't the best, with some practice there are many ways to skin the cat.
    Standard practice in irrigation work with thin wall pipe used to be flare one end out and crimp the other end "in" to achieve about 3/16"- 1/4" overlap and do a hot downhill lap weld with 6010 or 6011. Most of that pipe had a 10 guage wall. Never got any leaks.

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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Lot of welds are done downhill on outside corners of thin material. It's about the only way to keep from blowing through, or getting some serious undercut.

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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    After crawling around in some 100-gigawatt boiler and standing on your head to weld firetubes with hand mirrors, that job has got to feel like heaven!

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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    After crawling around in some 100-gigawatt boiler and standing on your head to weld firetubes with hand mirrors, that job has got to feel like heaven!
    This is like a holiday! the last job in the workshop didn't work out like I hoped, this one is much more my cup of tea.

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  19. #13
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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Never been a fan of the 6013, but if that's what is spec'd, Send it! If it were me 6010 and full penitration welds!
    It seemed like a good idea at the time!

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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetMK View Post
    I want the job fixing all the leaks,, with the requirement that I stay on the job as long as there are leaks,
    or for the 75 year life of the greenhouse,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    That requirement would mean that I would have to live until age 145,,, WOOT!!







    Why weld,,? in this day and age,,, someone must offer a "sharkbite type connector" for this by now,,,

    OR, someone needs to invent one,,
    And so they do, 1984 & 85 we put in a low pressure steam condensate line with a similar clamp setup, I cant remember for sure what they were called, but "roust-a-bout" seems right, they used a gasket for the joint & the clamp had carbide pucks cast into them that would "bit" into the pipe and hold tighter as pressure was increased, that line was over 1000' long.
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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttoks View Post
    This is like a holiday! the last job in the workshop didn't work out like I hoped, this one is much more my cup of tea.
    i dont know, 38 miles is quite a bit. i welded/hung 6000' of gas pipe this winter, and really got tired of it. i suppose i could do structural every day if i really had too, but theres something about round/pipe, that just gets to me after a while. it may sound like a easy job, but that repetative stuff can really get to some people

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    Re: Building a greenhouse, downhill E6013 on pipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by 123weld View Post
    i dont know, 38 miles is quite a bit. i welded/hung 6000' of gas pipe this winter, and really got tired of it. i suppose i could do structural every day if i really had too, but theres something about round/pipe, that just gets to me after a while. it may sound like a easy job, but that repetative stuff can really get to some people
    the way I see it is alot of pipe means at least a few months work, and the pay is good and there's no stress because no x-ray.

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